Member Since: 29 Oct 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 502
1 or 2 batteries for winch install
Well next week is the big day when I assemble my winch system to my D4. One wrangle I still have is should I go for one battery or add a second?
I wont be using it often, in fact I hope never to need it in anger. So I am wondering how essential would a second battery be? Will I just be carrying around more dead weight?
I have all the 2nd battery parts including a dumb split charge system, so another worry would be if the second battery would not get the chance to cycle and as such it would suffer.
Open to any views please. More technical or expericed would be great.
ThanksDiscovery 4 3.0 HSE 2010 year. I like it a lot. Now with winch š
11th Dec 2018 11:18 am
Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6902
If you are worried about carrying around dead weight and never think you will need to use it then why are you fitting it?
On my Defender, yes I know electrics are a little different, I wired my batteries in parallel to give more capacity, rather than a split charge, which has been well tried and tested on numerous occasions.Joined the BMWX5 45e group
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11th Dec 2018 12:41 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
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I doubt the car would even notice the extra weight. As the old saying goes, better to have and not need than need and not have.
11th Dec 2018 12:47 pm
charlietortoise
Member Since: 29 Oct 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 502
Batteries
Thanks for the reply, to answer this question as to why fit it , well its the holy grail to have a winch on a Land Rover and Santa deliverid it finally after 11 years of asking him for one š. Actually I had it on my old D2 for 4 years and it was really helpful from time to time, moving the odd skip or boat or pulling out a hedge or just being useful to a friend. Only twice needed it for recovery from deep sand myself and once to pull a recovery truck out of a snow ditch.
The D2 only had one battery but of course there was much less demand on it compared to the D4 electronics. As it is my use cyle seems to require a top up of the battery every month.
I wonder if there is some hidden advantage to having a second battery could it aid the main battery during day to day use if it was cross linked during the engine running or would I just finish with two flat batteries.
So with your winch you get 24 volts from the batteries? Is it a 24 volt winch?Discovery 4 3.0 HSE 2010 year. I like it a lot. Now with winch š
11th Dec 2018 1:07 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
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24v would need batteries in series, not parallel, not a good idea IMHO. The advantage of twin batteries is less problems if crank battery isnāt good, as I found out when I took the 2nd battery out.
11th Dec 2018 1:23 pm
charlietortoise
Member Since: 29 Oct 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 502
Batteries
Yes I got it now, mixing my parallels with series.
I bought a twin battery system of a chap on here so I have the big battery solenoids and thick wire to cross the engine bay to the other battery.
So DSL your 2nd battery helped with the cranking too? How does that work then, the starter relay also triggers the solenoid for the second battery?Discovery 4 3.0 HSE 2010 year. I like it a lot. Now with winch š
11th Dec 2018 1:57 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
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My two batteries were connected in parallel with a solenoid in between. The solenoid was āopenā when it picked up its 12v feed when the ignition was on, hence two batteries in parallel feeding the carās systems incl cranking once ignition is on. Once engine was running the alternator was then powering everything and charging both batteries. Simple but effective.
charlietortoise wrote:
I bought a twin battery system of a chap on here so I have the big battery solenoids and thick wire to cross the engine bay to the other battery.
Sounds similar to the gear for my setup.
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
11th Dec 2018 2:02 pm
charlietortoise
Member Since: 29 Oct 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 502
I have that exact same solenoid. So that can be powered up and just left powered when the car is running. I am gettimg my head around it now.Discovery 4 3.0 HSE 2010 year. I like it a lot. Now with winch š
11th Dec 2018 2:12 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
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Have a look at how a solenoid works on YouTube, thatās what helped me get my head around it all. Basically if the solenoid āsense feedā (either one of the blade terminals) sees 12v from ign live source, the +ve pole from crank battery & +ve pole of aux battery are connected. When ign is off the solenoid ābridgeā is closed and the aux battery is no longer connected to the crank battery, once started the alternator takes over running everything and charging the batteries. The aux battery can still power whatever is connected to it with the ignition off, but only the aux battery and not the crank battery. I used it for tech charging (wiring my aux sockets in the car directly to the 2 nd battery via the relay output), fridge, tyre compressor, etc, etc, etc.
PS As I understand it (and Iām not a techie) with the engine running the alternator provides the power for the winch, Iām assuming the battery adds Amps if the alternator canāt provide enough. Might be wrong, it has been known. Once or twice.
PPS Feed from Aux battery to relay output.
Click image to enlarge
Last edited by DSL on 11th Dec 2018 2:45 pm. Edited 1 time in total
I was going to go down this route but I was told the D4 has a smart alternator and therefore you can't use a standard split charge system..?!?
Not 100% sure this is the case.....
11th Dec 2018 2:31 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
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Worked a treat on my D4.
Just needed a bit of moving stuff around to get the battery in.
Click image to enlarge
11th Dec 2018 2:48 pm
charlietortoise
Member Since: 29 Oct 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 502
. Basically if the solenoid āsense feedā (either one of the blade terminals) sees 12v from ign live source..
I will look on you tube, its making sense and swinging me towards the duel battery.
Can I just clarify both these small spade terminals on the albright can take a live supply, I thought one was a live in and one an earth. If it is the case that both can be a live feed to activate the solenoid then that will make some more sense of the wiring I have.
I also have a second can type solenoid, my set up isolates at both sides of the engine bay so the thick wire crossing the engine is dead when the power is off.
Discovery 4 3.0 HSE 2010 year. I like it a lot. Now with winch š
11th Dec 2018 3:22 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
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One spade to ign live positive feed, other to each point. Doesnāt matter which.
No idea how Iād work in a second solenoid, not even sure whether itās needed.
I've got a VSR on mine joining the main battery to the second winch battery. The second battery is an Optima Yellow Top and the winch is a Superwinch Talon 12.5. I use mine for motorsport recovery and on our recent training day I used it in anger for about 4 hours without any issues.1972 Range Rover Classic 2 door V8
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11th Dec 2018 4:15 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72742
That was an issue when I was thinking about how to put the 2nd batt, whether I could fit a VSR. I didnāt go down that route for 2 reasons. Firstly the advice as to whether a VSR would work was contradictory. Secondly I had my most excellent Albright relay that had been providing sterling service.
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