Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10360
acurate caravan nosewieght
For years I have used the jockeywheel on the bathroom scales method for having a look at the 'vans noseweight. After buying the new Elddis I treated myself to a Milenco calibrated noseweight gauge.
So - jockeywheel on the scales, over 125kg
On Milenco gauge - 90kg.
I always thought the further away from the center of the 'van the more leverage therfore the higher the "weight" would be.
Its a T/A, measuered on level ground (which is how the 'van ran on the way home from picking it up).
So our old Bailey 620/6 which I thought was very nose heavy may not have been after all.
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25th Mar 2018 1:38 pm
Erea
Member Since: 19 Mar 2012
Location: Munster
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“I always thought the further away from the center of the 'van the more leverage therfore the higher the "weight" would be. “
I would have thought the opposite the longer the drawbar the less the weight.
But how far from the end is the jockey wheel?
Edit when weighing at the jockey wheel was it facing forwards or backwards at a guess there should be a noticeable difference depending on which way the wheel is.
It is basically a second class lever, like a wheel barrow where the load is between the fulcrum (pivot point) and the handle. Therefore the longer the handle the less the force required to lift it.Andy
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25th Mar 2018 3:34 pm
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10360
Ahh true. I was thinking about it the wrong way round. Distance from jockey wheel to actual nose is about a foot. Just goes to show how much difference that makes.
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25th Mar 2018 3:48 pm
JackNorris
Member Since: 06 Jul 2012
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Are you measuring at the same height?MY2023 Discovery 5 R-Dynamic 3.0
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25th Mar 2018 4:00 pm
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10360
Yes Jack, same height.
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25th Mar 2018 5:11 pm
dunton10
Member Since: 23 Dec 2006
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Posts: 213
Al
I always use a piece of broom handle or wood inserted in the hitch socket and then the bathroom scales trick. Should measure then at the right distance.
Raise the jockey wheel clear of the ground and measure weight.
Do you go for 7% of Mtpw or 100 kgs (alko recommended max)?
When i had my twin axle the heavier the better I found , within reason of course. I think I was around 120kgs. Didn’t seem to bother the alko hitch and rock solid and stable.Currently 2015 D4 SE Tech, Corris Grey
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25th Mar 2018 9:16 pm
al cope
Member Since: 08 Nov 2005
Location: Oldbury, WM
Posts: 10360
I have always tried to be at the 100kg max weight, but given my "inacurate" measuring I could well have been under. In the past I have been happy with 120kg at the jockeywheel, looks like this would have been just under 100kg at the nose in reality.
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26th Mar 2018 6:57 am
discoteca
Member Since: 08 Mar 2010
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 1477
It's really hard to get an accurate nose weight on a TA anyway even if it is on the level.
Idealy the only way to get it accurately is to have the hitch at exactly the same height as it will be when coupled to the car at normal ride height. I have the Milenco gauge as well but got some odd results when using it. Decided to go back to double check using piece of wood and bathroom scales method and got a very different result.
Because I could trim the length of the piece of wood I decided to experiment. Taking 2cm off the length made a 15 kg difference to the measured nose weight! This is because a TA doesn't pivot around a single axle. Depending on the hitch height one of the axles on a TA will always be taking slightly more weight than the other.
Really the only accurate way to do a TA is to ensure that the hitch is at exactly the towed height including a bit for the scales. That makes it difficult to do with the Milenco gauge as you can't adjust the height. Although you can experiment sliding some wood between the ground and the gauge to raise it a little (assuming that the nose needs to come up to achieve the correct nose height, not sure what you'd do if it needed to go down though).
The Milenco gauge goes up and down depending on the load placed on it. Changing the height of the hitch shifts the weight between the two axles. One solution I know of being used on multi-axle articulated trailers is to run the front two wheels up onto blocks before measuring. The twin axle will behave as if it was a single axle and give a reading regardless of hitch height.
I'm not completely convinced that this will give an accurate absolute value, but it will definately allow comparisons between different loading states.A vaccine does not stop you catching a virus, or passing it on, or getting ill from it, really ill. It does reduce the likelyhood of you dying when really, really ill. Stay Alive - KEEP AWAY FROM PEOPLE.
26th Mar 2018 9:23 am
discoteca
Member Since: 08 Mar 2010
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 1477
Yeah it will give a reading if one axle isn't on the ground but it will be completely different when both wheels are back on the ground!
The fact the Milenco goes up and down with load on it doesn't help. You need, at the point where the gauge is compressed by the weight of the hitch on it, for the hitch to be at exactly the height it would be if it were connected to the tow car to get the most accurate reading.
Unlike a single axle the nose weight of a TA will change depending on the height of the towbar on the car towing it. So the same van, loaded exactly the same can have a different nose weight just by coupling it to a different car (assuming the two cars have slightly different tow ball heights).
It's actually not that hard to do (it helps that the Disco has self leveling suspension so the car always remains at the same height). When the van is connected measure from the ground to the bottom of the hitch, then when using the noseweight gauge it might take a couple of goes but make sure once the hitch is lowered onto the gauge that the height from the bottom of the hitch to the ground is the same. If not back onto the jockey wheel and put some wood under the gauge to lift it then relower onto it. It will take a few goes to get it correct.
Once you have done it once, keep the various bits of wood labeled somewhere safe for next time!
26th Mar 2018 9:42 am
James W
Member Since: 27 Mar 2008
Location: Riyadh, KSA
Posts: 3079
^^ +1 this is how I use on my TA, ensure the hitch is at tow height and then let the hitch settle on the gauge. Also make sure the handbrake is off! (chock the wheels).
I find 92kg is the best weight, I was surprised how much I had to drag to the front of the van to get the weight up.D4 XS, gone, much loved, never forgotten
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26th Mar 2018 9:54 am
D4mation
Member Since: 29 Jul 2011
Location: Ruralshire
Posts: 593
Reich do a twin axle version of their load control gauge. Reich part no is 522-5200.
I believe the TA version allows for the fact that the hitch head sits higher than the towball when connected, but you would need to confirm with the supplier.
Member Since: 13 Nov 2017
Location: Cannock
Posts: 158
James W wrote:
^^ +1 this is how I use on my TA, ensure the hitch is at tow height and then let the hitch settle on the gauge. Also make sure the handbrake is off! (chock the wheels).
I find 92kg is the best weight, I was surprised how much I had to drag to the front of the van to get the weight up.
You want the hitch to be at tow height AFTER it has settled on the gauge to get an accurate reading. i.e exactly as it would be if on the car. if it is at tow height, then compresses on the gauge and lowers, this is not an accurate representation of what is going on when towing (the hitch is lower & has a different weight on it)
Just out of interest what is the reasoning behind chocking the wheels and taking the handbrake off?
19th Apr 2018 10:43 pm
Steamyrotter
Member Since: 03 Jul 2017
Location: Somewhere near Somewhere else in Somerset
Posts: 117
Quote:
Just out of interest what is the reasoning behind chocking the wheels and taking the handbrake off?
The handbrake applied may cause the suspension to not operate correctly due to the turning moment of the drum.
Release of handbrake leaves van in the "towed" condition and all suspension parts free to move (within reason)
Obviously chocking is so you dont do a Charlie Chaplain (other visual commedians also apply) and get chased by it down the road!If things were meant to be easy, then I will soon complicate them....
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