DAZ110
Member Since: 12 Jul 2017
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 74
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I’m not justifying what these idiots have done by climbing Ben Nevis, but think about all the stupid things each of us have done in the past and got away with it. Unfortunately sometimes we just do silly things in life without thinking about the consequences. 
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 11th Feb 2020 9:02 pm |
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leeds
Member Since: 30 Aug 2010
Location: West Yorkshire
Posts: 4312
 
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Not sure about other rescue teams but the Cave Rescue Organisation publishes a log of the incidents they attend and try to publish a log of hours spent by their volunteers on each incident. Can be anything from less than 10 hours for something very simple to many hundreds if not over a thousand hours for more complicated incidents.
Now yes I think those rescued should be aware of the time and money their rescue costs. There is a big difference between a genuine incident and people being stupid. The uneducated need teaching the error of their ways and maybe showing people how many hours that both the volunteers and professional take not only on that particular incident but how much training that the SAR dog and handler, first aider, team member, paramedic, helicopter pilot etc have undergone so that the rescue can be carried out. If that means giving them a bill so be it, does not necessary mean payment is enforced.
Brendan
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| 11th Feb 2020 9:58 pm |
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ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15213
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DAZ110 wrote:Unfortunately sometimes we just do silly things in life without thinking about the consequences.
Sounds to me like a classic excuse for those low in the gene pool. 
These twonks were utter t*ssers. ! I was a normal heterosexual chap, but in these new woke awakenings I now identify as a Wardrobe.
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| 11th Feb 2020 10:04 pm |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13906
  
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The Dundonian wrote:Oh well, they were foreign with very little English. 
Did they come by camper van?  New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner 
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:33 am |
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mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2702
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These people...a fair few people actually, are fools - there have always been those sorts, in all my mountaineering days, you'll never change it - sometimes i can see how people get into difficulty through a few poor mistakes, but not in this case.
But come on guys...charge them or making a sob story about the rescuers...i know we bread snowflakes here and we obviously dont want to add to the casualty list etc but this isn't america, we shouldn't charge for rescues nor should we judge - state funded or not, its what the system is there to do. Volunteers (like the times i have) sign up to do this, help and get in harms way to stop others from being harmed, they are trained to do this and do it without judgement - show a bit of compassion to all
To liken, maybe we could get rid of the fire service if we a) fitted sprinklers to all buildings and b) decide people wont have incidents
Military are there to fight, this might mean people die
Volunteer rescuers are there to get involved, support the communities, rescue people and enhance skills, applying their skills and experience to give something back
Paid rescue services are funded to be there as the last line to help all when there is a problem
The latter two should have the best equipment, training and team support that they dont add to the problem.
Great everyone made it off the hill safely Mike
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:42 am |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23366
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Well said. 
The concept of charging for rescue, however idiotic those needing rescue might have been, opens a can worms best left alone. As where do you draw the line? 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:52 am |
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galwaygreen
Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: plymouth
Posts: 6525
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insurance..
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:58 am |
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mse
Member Since: 27 Jun 2005
Location: Shropshire
Posts: 2702
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Yes its called our taxes.
We arent (thankfully) america. So no insurance is as silly as charging Mike
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| 12th Feb 2020 1:03 am |
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Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
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DAZ110 wrote:I’m not justifying what these idiots have done by climbing Ben Nevis, but think about all the stupid things each of us have done in the past and got away with it. Unfortunately sometimes we just do silly things in life without thinking about the consequences.
Thank you. Let (s)he who has never done anything stupid in their entire lives, be the first to criticise.
Some talk about charging for rescues of the stupid, but this leads to two issues:
1. Who decides what is sufficiently “stupid” to charge for (thanks LT) and even more importantly...
2. What happens when those in urgent need of help, who won’t call for it for fear of being hit with an unaffordable bill? How many people could needlessly die in those circumstances?
The current policy of rescuing first and then publicising undeniably stupid behaviour seems to work well enough 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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| 12th Feb 2020 7:57 am |
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ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15213
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It's -3 here an snowing, think I'll go for a walk in the remote Galloway Hills in my Speedos & flip flops.
Seems ok, as it's acceptable to do this. 
Btw, won't be taking my phone as I'll be accused of budgie smuggling.
I was a normal heterosexual chap, but in these new woke awakenings I now identify as a Wardrobe.
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| 12th Feb 2020 9:41 am |
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Madrilleno
Member Since: 13 Oct 2014
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 1742
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You can either charge everyone for being rescued or no one - how do you measure stupidity?. Having said that, climbing BN in February without adequate equipment isn't a grey area.
How about a few hours fundraising for the involved organisations? Enforced if necessary, though I don't know how. Wouldn't hit their pockets, but would make them think about what it costs to run the organisation. There are two rules for success,
1. Never tell everything you know.
RLD Spare Wheel Protector
RLD Sump Guard
Narpy Style RRS Grille from Beanie
Discostick 3rd button FBH controller
IID BT
EGRs Blanked
Geoff Gearbox Flush
Prospeed sliders & compressor guard
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| 12th Feb 2020 10:07 am |
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Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
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All I’d say is that people have to take some responsibility for their actions.
Maybe if appropriate, the extreme cases where there is circumstances like going up the mountain in shorts and flip flops, no map, ice axe, whatever. Then there maybe a case for them being criminally charged with Reckless Conduct and that should be the basis of billing them for the cost of the rescue. Seems fair to me!
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| 12th Feb 2020 10:16 am |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23366
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As I and others have said, where do you draw the line.
The cyclist who knowingly bought a cheap safety helmet, had a crash and required an Air Ambulance to get him to the nearest head injuries unit ASAP. They knew the helmet was a cheap one, so should they be made to pay? 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 11:09 am |
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Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
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We could all find examples of situations where you could convincingly argue one way or the other, but I think these are quite a bit different from a t shirt and flip flops up Ben Nevis in the winter tbh.
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| 12th Feb 2020 11:19 am |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23366
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But where do you draw the line? 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 11:22 am |
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