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Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
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Define “reckless” and there you have your line. 
After all Pharmacists who hand out wrong drugs and the patient dies are classed as reckless. So are drivers, who show a wanton disregard whilst driving. It’s not so difficult to apply that the walkers who go up a mountain more than a little ill prepared.
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 12th Feb 2020 11:28 am |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23337
 
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Exactly. You never can. I could argue that knowingly buying the cheapest cycle helmet was reckless toward the wearer, others would say it wasn’t. The lawyers would have a field day. 
They’ll always be idiots and the current emergency and search and rescue services work well.
In this particular case, I suspect that legally it would be a case of negligence rather than recklessness. As it would be difficult to prove that these eejits knew that their actions were likely to cause harm to others. Fortunately no harm was caused to others was it? 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 11:33 am |
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Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
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Oh you’d argue with your own shadow - again.
Scots Law defines it unless you know better obviously. 
Recklessness[edit source]
While there is no statutory definition, a summary of what constitutes the offence can be inferred from a draft Scottish Legal Code[2] which drew upon current law and proposed the following for a statutory offence of Recklessness :-
Recklessness
For the purposes of criminal liability ⎯
(a) something is caused recklessly if the person causing the result is, or ought to be, aware of an obvious and serious risk that acting will bring about the result but nonetheless acts where no reasonable person would do so;
(b) a person is reckless as to a circumstance, or as to a possible result of an act, if the person is, or ought to be, aware of an obvious and serious risk that the circumstance exists, or that the result will follow, but nonetheless acts where no reasonable person would do so;
(c) a person acts recklessly if the person is, or ought to be, aware of an obvious and serious risk of dangers or of possible harmful results in so acting but nonetheless acts where no reasonable person would do so.
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| 12th Feb 2020 11:57 am |
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Charliecloud
Member Since: 31 Jul 2014
Location: Tonbridge
Posts: 980
 
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ronp wrote:Twonks like this should be charged for putting the lives of others at risk.
At the very least, they should be made to pay the costs of their rescue.
This ^
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:10 pm |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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galwaygreen wrote:insurance..
Isn't that what we are doing when we donate? Most of these rescue organisations are purely donation based, if you are into boating you are likely to donate to RNLI, I guess if you are a hiker Mountain Rescue should be high on your gifting priority. My family fish, shoot and ride we are part of a group that raises money for Air Ambulance as a consequence of a friend needing their services. So far we have raised over £20K which we were really chuffed with that until we fond out that represents about 4 call outs! DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:28 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23337
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I can’t think of anyone I know who rides that doesn’t donate and/or raises funds for the local Air Ambulance. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:44 pm |
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Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
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But I’d be surprised if the flip flop brigade do tbh.
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:49 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23337
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Probably not, but I don’t begrudge them for that. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 12:52 pm |
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Hardware
Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12697
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I walked up Ben Nevis about 40 years ago. It was summer but got cold near the top and was covered in cloud ... I saw how easily it could be to walk off the edge, visibility was awful.
On the way up, we passed a girl wearing high heels. Funny, we never saw her at the top. .
Dean
====================================
2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer  ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms
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| 12th Feb 2020 1:23 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23337
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^
“ Responding to calls on social media for people to take out insurance before heading into Scotland's hills, or for people to be charged for being rescued, the team said such measures would be unworkable.
"Where do you stop? Insurance for fishing, rugby, football all of which have more incidents and injuries than mountaineering?" said the team.
The team said efforts should be focused on increasing awareness of mountain safety and weather forecasts, adding that the rescued four men should be "cut a little bit of slack".”
Sums it up nicely as far as I’m concerned. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 1:55 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13080
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Nice to see the rescued party have sent a donation and some drinkies/choccies to the team. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 12th Feb 2020 2:05 pm |
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Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
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This is about four men going up Ben Nevis in the Winter in adverse conditions to put it lightly, three with trainers on, no winter gear, no ice axes, no food, not having the common sense to abort the trip when they could, which required 40 plus member of the LMR team and a helicopter, at some risk, to rescue them.
A LMR team member may well now be saying don’t be too hard on them, but that’s not what their leader was saying when the story first broke.
Yes, nice to see they gifted some drink and chocs to their rescuers, but do they realise there was over 40 people turned out, not counting the helicopter and it’s crew, they’d be lucky to get a choc each never mind a dram and if you actually break down the cost of the rescue, it would be well into 5 figures.
Another topic I can see the usual protagonists and I, plus others aren’t going to agree on. This follows the same lines as the Brexit topic and other debates, so you do start to wonder if we really are at polar opposites or it’s a follow on from that. I know what I suspect!
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| 12th Feb 2020 4:50 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23337
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Everyone agrees that they were foolhardy and ill prepared due to the weather. What I and some others disagree on is that they should be charged for the rescue and/or that there should be insurance to cover such an event. That’s all.
There really isn’t any link to the Brexit or any other thread. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography
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| 12th Feb 2020 5:36 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13080
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They were as stupid as stupid things going on any mountain in the UK in winter in trainers, let alone Ben Nevis. I don't think anyone's disagreeing with that are they? I'm just glad that they've acknowledged their mistake and, albeit in a small way, said thank you. I'm sure the £200 will help the MR team. Too many people take for granted that others will help. At least these people have admitted their mistake. Some don't. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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| 12th Feb 2020 8:21 pm |
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