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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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1. it depends upon when they were remapped - from new(ish) wouldn't make any difference.
2. If it did, in any substantial numbers, you'd have heard about it before now.
I've mentioned it before, most failures are due to the wrong grade of oil used (even by dealers) and extended (by several thousand mile) service intervals, the rest are mechanical failures within the statistical norm for a mass-produced engine. There is no cover up, no secret meetings with suppliers, no hidden design flaws...
Like the moon landings, if a competitor or disgruntled employee had evidence, it would surely be in the public domain by now. Julian Assange has been strangely quiet on the matter.
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 12th Aug 2022 11:21 pm |
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popsdosh
Member Since: 09 Nov 2009
Location: cambs
Posts: 442
 
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What evidence do you need? the cranks snap end of, that should not occur in that often in modern engines it is a design flaw due to an oilway drilling that goes through a stress point. There are many well maintained D4s that have suffered this issue to make rubbish of your grade of oil theory ! Also the speed this occurs points to immediate mechanical failure and not the type of wear that occurs from lubrication issues which would show up in big ends first. Just check out how many threads have been started on here with blown engine and then the cause . Many engines have been replaced by JLR either under warranty or goodwill ,if your unlucky you fall outside these criteria. Evidence of that is the approx 10 weeks it takes to get this put right mainly due to dealers having a backlog of vehicles in need of engines.
It changes your attitude to the issue when it happens to you and the issues around it. When I asked the service manager the cause he straight away said theres no maintenance issue ,its a lottery it had even happened in a PDI disco 5.
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| 13th Aug 2022 7:11 am |
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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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OK, well, if that what you want to believe - just bear in mind the hundreds of thousands of these engines that are still happily trundling around, clearly if your engine fails it's a big issue to you but in the wider world, it's a vanishingly small percentage. A service manager works for the dealership, not JLR so won't be privy to the 'big picture' or internal JLR & supplier investigations on the matter.
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| 13th Aug 2022 7:34 am |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13908
  
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Flatlander wrote:1. it depends upon when they were remapped - from new(ish) wouldn't make any difference.
2. If it did, in any substantial numbers, you'd have heard about it before now.
I've mentioned it before, most failures are due to the wrong grade of oil used (even by dealers) and extended (by several thousand mile) service intervals, the rest are mechanical failures within the statistical norm for a mass-produced engine. There is no cover up, no secret meetings with suppliers, no hidden design flaws...
Like the moon landings, if a competitor or disgruntled employee had evidence, it would surely be in the public domain by now. Julian Assange has been strangely quiet on the matter.
It would appear frequency of oil changes is irrelevant. Cranks have snapped on cars where the owners have changed the oil and filter at 6000 miles. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner 
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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| 13th Aug 2022 10:04 am |
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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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Not irrelevant at all, I've highlighted why.
Quote: most failures are due to the wrong grade of oil used (even by dealers) and extended (by several thousand mile) service intervals, the rest are mechanical failures within the statistical norm for a mass-produced engine.
You can cherry-pick examples to 'disprove' the above as much as you want, the fact remains that the failures mentioned on here are only a small sample of the total failures, just as the non-failures are just a small sample of the non-failed engines. Unless you have access to the full dataset, it's just armchair engineers playing 'guess the cause', so I'll leave you to your suppositions and theories from now on.
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| 13th Aug 2022 5:22 pm |
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sasdiscos
Member Since: 22 Feb 2013
Location: Northants
Posts: 886
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So crank snappages are considered the norm for all engines on the market?
Steve. You remind me of a younger me, not much younger mind...perhaps even a little older!
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| 13th Aug 2022 6:59 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 11 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6574
 
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Engine failures for whatever reason are considered normal. What matters is how many and when it occurs. There is certainly polarization in the data on forums and FB w.r.t. failures. On the other hand JLR (or another manufacturer) would get info of failures only if the vehicle is serviced/claimed within their dealer network. Arguably the data the manufacturer has is more accurate data than what laymen have but still theirs can’t be considered complete either.
If I were the manufacturer I’d be interested at number of failures per cohort within a certain time interval. For example failures for MY10, specific engine config, within 1st/2nd/3rd/Xth year. Alternatively distance driven. It’s actually a really interesting problem within the field of collecting, massaging, mangling and interpreting data.
To add to this slightly. Suppose the designed lifespan for a vehicle is 8 years and 200k km. MY10, they manufacture and eventually sell 10k vehicles. That’s the maximum possible amount of samples.
First year, 50 vehicles of MY10 cohort have an engine failure. Autopsy on engine reveals some ate a turbo, others snapped a crank for whatever reason. The failure rate is 0.5% of manufactured vehicles.
Second year, 50 more vehicles of MY10 cohort have an engine failure for various reasons. The vehicles are now one year older and have more kilometers on them. The [annual] failure rate is still the same, 0.5%, while total amount of vehicles that failed from the same cohort is 1%.
Etc.
Insert your own figures, I used round figures for easy math. Now do the same for each model year and for mileage to split the data into various groups. Use whatever design lifespan, etc.
What confuses/obfuscates is that when people report failures on forums and FB, they report for all model years (as expected) and “we” consider them together and think the world is ending. But, arguably, they should be interpreted separately.
Similarly, what happens after the design lifespan has passed is, well, everyone’s own problem. I mean, I drive a 17 year old D3 which is at least 1.7x its intended lifespan (10 years? 8 years? Etc.) and if the engine fails - knock, knock - I’m certainly not calling JLR to complain at this point.
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| 13th Aug 2022 7:46 pm |
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popsdosh
Member Since: 09 Nov 2009
Location: cambs
Posts: 442
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Flatlander wrote:Not irrelevant at all, I've highlighted why.
Quote: most failures are due to the wrong grade of oil used (even by dealers) and extended (by several thousand mile) service intervals, the rest are mechanical failures within the statistical norm for a mass-produced engine.
You can cherry-pick examples to 'disprove' the above as much as you want, the fact remains that the failures mentioned on here are only a small sample of the total failures, just as the non-failures are just a small sample of the non-failed engines. Unless you have access to the full dataset, it's just armchair engineers playing 'guess the cause', so I'll leave you to your suppositions and theories from now on.
I guess that even JLRs own warranty insurance provider. using the terms an inherent design fault may give you a clue its a deeper issue. As they wont pay for a snapped crank. Its purely down to JLR goodwill then.
If it was the norm I doubt they would be spending approx 12 K a pop on the replacement.
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| 14th Aug 2022 6:13 am |
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kim0785b
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: London
Posts: 126
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| Mine snapped but got it fixed |
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2016 Disco4 - mine snapped at 41k bought it at 29k so yes about 10k on it before the bearings spun.
Car was doing 70mph on cruise control on the M4 and suddenly stopped, pretty frightening but was a quiet sunday evening so was safe.
JLR coughed up 80% of the costs, took a few months but had the car back and runs ever so smoothly.
About £2.5k from me for the whole process.
Fair to say I drive it on the slow lane at 60mph most of the time now and let the engine warm up before giving it some umph. 
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| 16th Aug 2022 10:02 am |
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