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Ralph1malph
Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23
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D3 Transmission Thought Provoker |
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Hi All,
I posted this on AULRO here in Oz, but thought I'd post here as well to provoke discussion.
Here's a thought provoker!
I welcome your thoughts.
Having read many threads on this transmission, as well as many of the commonly available diagrams and tutorials, I reckon my hypothesis is this-:
Physically, the ZF 6HP26X can be fitted to a D3 from any donor make, if the PN is in the range 1068 020 xxx. (Possibly other ranges to but this hypothesis hasn't been tested by myself).
It is acknowledged that internally, there may be some nuance between internal manufacture, but the result (drive to Tcase) is/should be the same.
To get it to integrate with the rest of the D3 though, the mechatronic unit or at least the TCU needs to be swapped from a D3. (Again, it is 'possible' to flash a TCU, but I've not researched that bit yet).
Simplistic hypothesis, I know, but I am just thinking that it should be this simple. Theoretically, it should work.
Thoughts?
Ralph Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76
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26th May 2018 9:31 am |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10336
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Think the jag one has the selector in the other side too
Edit: I see these g boxes have a selector both sides !
Last edited by Pete K on 28th May 2018 8:33 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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26th May 2018 5:29 pm |
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Ralph1malph
Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23
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Cheers for all your thoughts.
I expect there is a group or series of part numbers or build states that will meet all criteria.
I will research this more me feels.
Cheers
RJ Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76
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26th May 2018 10:43 pm |
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TigerRecovery
Member Since: 31 May 2017
Location: Long Stratton, Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 901
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I work for JLR in the automatic transmission controls department. The TCM is matched to the valves in the mechatronic unit. This means that they need to be kept together otherwise it will cause the transmission to fail.
Also, as mentioned, the Jaguar box has an output flange to the propshaft whereas the Land Rover box has a shaft that interfaces with the transfer box.
There are also other subtle differences between the units, one has a TCM made by Bosch, another one is made by Siemens, again, they're not really 100% interchangeable.
As said above, stick to a LR product. 1972 Range Rover Classic 2 door V8
2013 Land Rover Discovery 4 HSE - SCRAPPED
2016 Land Rover Discovery 4 Landmark
2022 Volvo XC40 T5 PHEV 282HP FWD 3 cylinder!
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26th May 2018 10:53 pm |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1114
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If your thinking of a Ford Territory gearbox which should have the same output splined shaft as the LR version, just remember the gearbox is not actually a ZF but is the Ford knockoff version made under license by Ford. Not sure if an issues but I know production tolerances and quality control etc are not quite the same but they do work Ok. So maybe they would be Ok if you moved the LR ZF controller and sensors etc across.
Also remember the Territory has a substandard radiator that cracks around the area where the transmission cooler is allowing coolant to mix with the transmission fluid contaminating the gearbox - so if you are looking at a Territory gearbox make sure this has not happened.
Garry
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27th May 2018 12:49 am |
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Ralph1malph
Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23
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TigerRecovery wrote:I work for JLR in the automatic transmission controls department. The TCM is matched to the valves in the mechatronic unit. This means that they need to be kept together otherwise it will cause the transmission to fail.
Also, as mentioned, the Jaguar box has an output flange to the propshaft whereas the Land Rover box has a shaft that interfaces with the transfer box.
There are also other subtle differences between the units, one has a TCM made by Bosch, another one is made by Siemens, again, they're not really 100% interchangeable.
As said above, stick to a LR product.
Hi TigerRecovery,
Regards the TCM being matched to the valves, this is the sort of thing I'm interested in. I assume they are matched through software applied tolerances, similar to how one matches an injector.
Regards the Bosch vs Siemens factor, this is right up my alley! As a reliability engineer, we often expect that as long as the inputs and outputs are known controls, the internals are just a black box. I'm more intrigued now than ever!
Cheers for the info.
Ralph Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76
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27th May 2018 5:00 am |
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Ralph1malph
Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23
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garrycol wrote:If your thinking of a Ford Territory gearbox which should have the same output splined shaft as the LR version, just remember the gearbox is not actually a ZF but is the Ford knockoff version made under license by Ford. Not sure if an issues but I know production tolerances and quality control etc are not quite the same but they do work Ok. So maybe they would be Ok if you moved the LR ZF controller and sensors etc across.
Also remember the Territory has a substandard radiator that cracks around the area where the transmission cooler is allowing coolant to mix with the transmission fluid contaminating the gearbox - so if you are looking at a Territory gearbox make sure this has not happened.
Garry
Hi Garry,
This is the very discussion I'm interested in.
Black box theory (my fave as a reliability engineer) provides that if the physical i/p & o/p are known and the controls can be matched then there should be no reason why not!
Yes, I know it's not always that simple, but I'm interested to know why, when the TC end matches and fits, the splined output shaft matches and fits, and the control modules can be made to talk, why it shouldn't work.
I'll prob rebuild my existing trans, but nonetheless I'm very inquisitive!
Cheers
Ralph Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76
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27th May 2018 5:16 am |
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garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1114
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Yes I agree - but there may be subtle internal differences - eg valving rates, gear ratios etc which the Landrover controllers cannot control - I dont know.
Also, as you probably appreciate, Ford Australia used the same gearbox in its Falcons but being 2wd that are probably not all that relevant.
The other vehicle that is somewhat overlooked is the Ranger and the Mazda BT50 - both full on 4wds with transfer case with the same Ford Knock off ZF or the real ZF.
Garry
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27th May 2018 6:30 am |
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