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D3 Transmission Thought Provoker
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Ralph1malph
 


Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23

Australia 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3
D3 Transmission Thought Provoker

Hi All,
I posted this on AULRO here in Oz, but thought I'd post here as well to provoke discussion.

Here's a thought provoker!
I welcome your thoughts.

Having read many threads on this transmission, as well as many of the commonly available diagrams and tutorials, I reckon my hypothesis is this-:

Physically, the ZF 6HP26X can be fitted to a D3 from any donor make, if the PN is in the range 1068 020 xxx. (Possibly other ranges to but this hypothesis hasn't been tested by myself).
It is acknowledged that internally, there may be some nuance between internal manufacture, but the result (drive to Tcase) is/should be the same.

To get it to integrate with the rest of the D3 though, the mechatronic unit or at least the TCU needs to be swapped from a D3. (Again, it is 'possible' to flash a TCU, but I've not researched that bit yet).

Simplistic hypothesis, I know, but I am just thinking that it should be this simple. Theoretically, it should work.

Thoughts?
Ralph
 Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76 
 
Post #194825826th May 2018 9:31 am
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Disco_Mikey
 


Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20713

Scotland 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

Not all 6HP boxes are the same. Jag variants have a drive flange, instead of splined shaft...

Stick to an LR variant Thumbs Up
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Post #194833226th May 2018 5:25 pm
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Pete K
 


Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10336

England 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Rimini RedDiscovery 3

Think the jag one has the selector in the other side too


Edit: I see these g boxes have a selector both sides !
 

Last edited by Pete K on 28th May 2018 8:33 pm. Edited 1 time in total 
Post #194833426th May 2018 5:29 pm
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Ralph1malph
 


Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23

Australia 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

Cheers for all your thoughts.
I expect there is a group or series of part numbers or build states that will meet all criteria.
I will research this more me feels.

Cheers
RJ
 Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76 
 
Post #194843026th May 2018 10:43 pm
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TigerRecovery
 


Member Since: 31 May 2017
Location: Long Stratton, Norwich, Norfolk
Posts: 901

Wales 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

I work for JLR in the automatic transmission controls department. The TCM is matched to the valves in the mechatronic unit. This means that they need to be kept together otherwise it will cause the transmission to fail.

Also, as mentioned, the Jaguar box has an output flange to the propshaft whereas the Land Rover box has a shaft that interfaces with the transfer box.

There are also other subtle differences between the units, one has a TCM made by Bosch, another one is made by Siemens, again, they're not really 100% interchangeable.

As said above, stick to a LR product.
 1972 Range Rover Classic 2 door V8
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Post #194843326th May 2018 10:53 pm
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garrycol
 


Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1114

Australia 

If your thinking of a Ford Territory gearbox which should have the same output splined shaft as the LR version, just remember the gearbox is not actually a ZF but is the Ford knockoff version made under license by Ford. Not sure if an issues but I know production tolerances and quality control etc are not quite the same but they do work Ok. So maybe they would be Ok if you moved the LR ZF controller and sensors etc across.

Also remember the Territory has a substandard radiator that cracks around the area where the transmission cooler is allowing coolant to mix with the transmission fluid contaminating the gearbox - so if you are looking at a Territory gearbox make sure this has not happened.

Garry
  
Post #194844327th May 2018 12:49 am
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Ralph1malph
 


Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23

Australia 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

TigerRecovery wrote:
I work for JLR in the automatic transmission controls department. The TCM is matched to the valves in the mechatronic unit. This means that they need to be kept together otherwise it will cause the transmission to fail.

Also, as mentioned, the Jaguar box has an output flange to the propshaft whereas the Land Rover box has a shaft that interfaces with the transfer box.

There are also other subtle differences between the units, one has a TCM made by Bosch, another one is made by Siemens, again, they're not really 100% interchangeable.

As said above, stick to a LR product.


Hi TigerRecovery,

Regards the TCM being matched to the valves, this is the sort of thing I'm interested in. I assume they are matched through software applied tolerances, similar to how one matches an injector.

Regards the Bosch vs Siemens factor, this is right up my alley! As a reliability engineer, we often expect that as long as the inputs and outputs are known controls, the internals are just a black box. I'm more intrigued now than ever!

Cheers for the info.
Ralph
 Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76 
 
Post #194844427th May 2018 5:00 am
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Ralph1malph
 


Member Since: 10 Oct 2016
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 23

Australia 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

garrycol wrote:
If your thinking of a Ford Territory gearbox which should have the same output splined shaft as the LR version, just remember the gearbox is not actually a ZF but is the Ford knockoff version made under license by Ford. Not sure if an issues but I know production tolerances and quality control etc are not quite the same but they do work Ok. So maybe they would be Ok if you moved the LR ZF controller and sensors etc across.

Also remember the Territory has a substandard radiator that cracks around the area where the transmission cooler is allowing coolant to mix with the transmission fluid contaminating the gearbox - so if you are looking at a Territory gearbox make sure this has not happened.

Garry


Hi Garry,
This is the very discussion I'm interested in.
Black box theory (my fave as a reliability engineer) provides that if the physical i/p & o/p are known and the controls can be matched then there should be no reason why not!
Yes, I know it's not always that simple, but I'm interested to know why, when the TC end matches and fits, the splined output shaft matches and fits, and the control modules can be made to talk, why it shouldn't work.

I'll prob rebuild my existing trans, but nonetheless I'm very inquisitive!

Cheers
Ralph
 Now D3 2.7 TDV6 06
Then D2 TD5 99
Then D1 V8 96
Then S3 2.4 76 
 
Post #194844527th May 2018 5:16 am
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garrycol
 


Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1114

Australia 

Yes I agree - but there may be subtle internal differences - eg valving rates, gear ratios etc which the Landrover controllers cannot control - I dont know.

Also, as you probably appreciate, Ford Australia used the same gearbox in its Falcons but being 2wd that are probably not all that relevant.

The other vehicle that is somewhat overlooked is the Ranger and the Mazda BT50 - both full on 4wds with transfer case with the same Ford Knock off ZF or the real ZF.

Garry
  
Post #194845027th May 2018 6:30 am
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