Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
D4 EPB Questions for the experts
I have some questions for the experts.
You may have noticed I have been posting in another thread about judder being caused by the EPB (http://disco3.co.uk/forum/topic146552.html). During my investigation a few point have cropped up.
1. The IID Tool EPB I/O section allows the parking brake to be moved to the "MOUNTING" and "LATCHING" position. Is MOUNTING the same as "Service Mode" and LATCHING the normal position?
EDIT:- ANSWERED BELOW.
2. After fitting new shoes, do I still have to bed them in as per the D3? I assume I do as the system is, as far as I can see, the same as the D3. I have tried the routine as described in Bodsy's brake bible but I can't get any message appearing confirming I am in the bedding in mode. Is the D4 any different in this regard.
EDIT;-EVENTUALLY MANAGED IT.
3. In an attempt to stop my brakes juddering, I put the EPB into mounting mode and then pulled the 30amp fuse but the car wouldn't then start. The starter would kick in very briefly but then would stop before the engine had a chance to fire - almost as though the battery was flat. Why would that be? Putting the EPB into mounting mode certainly stopped the shudder but I assume if I apply the EPB switch it will go back to its normal position.
EDIT;- I NOW KNOW WHAT CAUSED THIS BUT DONT KNOW WHY.
Thanks in advance for any answers. Hopefully a new set of shoes and springs etc will cure the judder.
.
Last edited by HughMartin on 2nd Jul 2016 8:43 pm. Edited 1 time in total
27th Jun 2016 11:24 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20844
Mounting position extends the cables fully, to allow easier fitment of the shoes, and enables correct adjustment. Latch position is normal
Bedding in procedure is exactly the same as D3, but if it doesn't work, try switching the ignition on (with your foot off the brake pedal) and attempt bedding procedureMy D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Thanks DM. I've tried arming the bedding in process with engine on and engine off but with ignition on. I'm not getting any message to indicate that the bedding in process is active.
Any thoughts on why the engine wouldn't start with the 30amp fuse removed?
27th Jun 2016 7:52 pm
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
I think I have answered Q2 and Q3 by trial and error.
Ref Q2, I cleared all faults and low and behold, bedding in cycle becomes available as advertised.
Ref Q3, it's a strange one. I pulled the 30 amp fuse again while the engine was running and noticed the fuel guage read empty. Also a "Reduced Power" message was displayed. I stopped the engine and it wouldn't allow me to start again. This is as described in the "Running out of Fuel" section in the owners manual. Exactly why pulling this fuse causes the fuel guage to show empty, I don't know. Putting the fuse back in again allowed the fuel guage to read normally.
27th Jun 2016 8:45 pm
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Just changed my epb shoes and I made the big mistake of not taking a photo before I started to dismantle.
I used Bodsy's Brake Bible which of course is for the D3 (but the D4 is essentially the same). My D4 has an extra spring and I'm not sure if I have fitted it correctly.
Here is a photo of it on the offside unit
Have I got it fitted correctly? There are two holes in the backplate and each shoe has a hole so I have the option of rigging the spring to pull the rear shoe forward or the front shoe backwards. Which should it be? I can't find any reference to this extra spring in the D4 Maintenance manual but a couple of new ones came with my new shoes from Advanced Factors along with all the other bits and bobs.
29th Jun 2016 3:00 pm
sputnixb51
Member Since: 23 Apr 2013
Location: Morayshire
Posts: 833
I am sure that is an erelevant Spring for your installation, I have seen a similar post before, the kit is obviously for another installation as well which does use it.
29th Jun 2016 8:15 pm
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Quote:
I am sure that is an erelevant Spring for your installation, I have seen a similar post before, the kit is obviously for another installation as well which does use it.
Thanks sputnixb51. I have heard this elsewhere and would accept it easier had my car not already been fitted with this spring. It could be that the shoes have been changed before and an over enthusiastic LR mechanic has fitted it by mistake.
29th Jun 2016 9:15 pm
sputnixb51
Member Since: 23 Apr 2013
Location: Morayshire
Posts: 833
I have done X two D3 EPB shoe replacements neither needed that particular Spring. Maybe for FF RR it is also similar
29th Jun 2016 9:39 pm
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20844
They are fitted to a certain MY of D4/RRS. Not essential, but if it's in the kit, you may as well fit it My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
sputnixb51 wrote:
I have done X two D3 EPB shoe replacements neither needed that particular Spring. Maybe for FF RR it is also similar
It's a D4 not a D3
29th Jun 2016 10:38 pm
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Disco_Mikey wrote:
They are fitted to a certain MY of D4/RRS. Not essential, but if it's in the kit, you may as well fit it
But the question is, which shoe should the spring be attached to. Should it pull the forward shoe back or the rear shoe forward? It must have been added to the D4 assembly for a reason. If I had paid more attention when dismantling it I would know the answer
29th Jun 2016 10:43 pm
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
OK, I'm getting really confused now. I have found a diagram in a my2011 workshop manual which shows the two small springs. The confusing thing is that, if I am reading it correctly, it shows the ratchet adjuster to be at the top of the shoe assembly on the left hand brake unit and on the bottom on the right hand side. Bodsy's brake bible shows the ratchets to be the other way round, ie, the right hand side ratchet adjuster is at the top of the assembly and vice verse on the left. Has LR swapped things over at some stage?
Extract from Bodsy's Brake Bible;-
Extract from Workshop Manual;-
30th Jun 2016 11:04 am
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Well, I've put my rear brakes back together and, so far, no repeat of the judder I was getting. I still have some questions outstanding which I was hoping the likes of Bodsy would be able to answer regarding the "extra" spring but, hey ho, I'm sure he is a busy man with a life outside land rovers.
I am coming to the conclusion that this forum is still heavily biased to D3 issues. This is not intended to be a critiisism, just a reflection of the fact that the D4 is more reliable than the D3 is and that maybe not so many D4 owners are into the DIY.
Last edited by HughMartin on 2nd Jul 2016 8:21 pm. Edited 1 time in total
1st Jul 2016 7:13 pm
sputnixb51
Member Since: 23 Apr 2013
Location: Morayshire
Posts: 833
I know it's D4 I can read! And apart from a few D4's as Disco Mikey says above D3's and D4's are the same in this EPB area and even if physically a bit different the principles remain the same, as for Bodsy well he has been asking for update information on later models so that he can do an addendum to his very useful and useable Brake Bible, glad you have got yours sorted.
2nd Jul 2016 11:10 am
Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6910
They all wear brake parts! I didn't notice any difference in any of the D4 brakes over the D3 except for size, although my epb shoes had totally worn away after one disc change at 40k miles ish. There had been no sign of any judder.Joined the BMWX5 45e group
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