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Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2821
  
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| D4 the LR Pinnacle? An Essay. |
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It’s not actually a question as far as I’m concerned, I’ve decided that for our specific needs, wants, and requirements my 65 plate D4 HSE Lux is the Pinnacle for Land Rover development in the original vision of the brand.
Note:
I said “for our specific needs, wants, and requirements”.
I apologise if this rambles on a bit.
I mean no disrespect to anyone who choses a different LR as they probably have different requirements.
Lady Nasher, Toby the dog, and myself, arrived home yesterday after our annual weeks break this time of year walking on Bodmin Moor and the North Cornwall Coast Path.
The 195 miles home from the cottage we rented gave me too much time to think.
I wouldn’t have wanted to do the trip in any other vehicle.
The only Mods it has are an Altox controller for the heater/tracker, and a set of now half worn Avon AX7 AT Tyres.
The long journey there and back at A road and Motorway speeds couldn’t have been more comfortable, and of course being an HSE Lux we couldn’t want for any more gizmos and gadgets.
Whilst in Cornwall we were able to access the very ends and beyond of the road and track network to start our walks, and used tracks and roads that were more like muddy river beds at times with confidence.
Of course none of this was a surprise, we’ve had D3/4s since 2010, done many thousands of miles in them, quite a few with up to @3tns of Boat and trailer on the back.
But of course my thinking time got around again to what I’d replace the D4 with when the time comes.
It’s already been with me a few months more than I planned, and I’m going to keep it at least another year now because of the rambling thoughts below culminating in a realisation that No, there isn’t currently a replacement that suits me in every respect. Bearing in mind I’d usually buy a top spec when new used vehicle @3yrs old.
I’m now trying to give up buying a vehicle and running it for many years until it gets really uneconomical to keep going. so have currently ruled out keeping the D4 for more than another 18 months as it will have @100K miles on it by then.
I know all this has been covered before, but I’d actually really like somebody to tell me that I’m wrong about some of the points below as it may limit the number of compromises I’m going to have to eventually make. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
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 7th Nov 2022 2:45 pm |
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Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2821
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Our basic need, (or in 1st world problem type truth - ‘Want’) is for a car that can carry a load of stuff about, be comfortable on longer journeys, can go where a normal family saloon can’t, and can tow 3tns of boat and trailer across a muddy field, up slimy slipways, or across a beach.
Oh, and look good in the process.
There are lots of big 4x4s about that will do all of that, but it’s when we get into some more specific things the D4 provides that we start to struggle to find them all in one replacement vehicle.
Perhaps I need to look at other brands now!
For the purposes of my ramblings there are only three LR vehicles that come close enough to think about.
The Discovery 5, new(is it still that) Defender, and you might be surprised for me to include the FFRR.
All other LRs do not meet the basic needs mentioned above.
I really like the aesthetics of my D4, both inside and out. There is a definite lineage right back to the early LR days and it’s proportioned really nicely.
I like the look of the new 110 and 130 defender, and actually in a different way I also like the look of the FFRR.
I’m not sure however about the interior of the D5 or the robustness of the Defender or FFRR Interiors.
I’m really sorry D5 owners, but the exterior just doesn’t do it for me, and hasn’t grown on me like the D3 did after a couple of years of seeing them on the road.
The D4, with AT tyres, performs really well in the type of off-road situations I throw at it.
The New Defender 110 would obviously do just as well, as would the FFRR, D5 and 130 Defender.
The Load space in the D4 with the second and third row seats folded down is not only huge, but a good box shape with almost vertical sides, and with a crucially completely flat load surface.
I love that I can just pop out and buy a new fridge freezer and stick it in the back of the D4, I buy and sell the odd bit of furniture that just goes in the back of the D4, and with a full load liner a trip to the Dump is also a breeze in the D4. I also buy and sell the odd project Ducati motorcycle, and would normally hire a van, but if they are already dismantled into large lumps I can get at least two in the back of the D4 easily.
The D5 load space is I believe actually a little larger, and has the flat surface, but the more tapered inwards shape above the waistline narrows the width at the top of the rear opening quite a lot compared to the D4. I could be wrong but I believe the rear opening is also a little shorter limiting the height of objects that fit through the opening.
The FFRR obviously loses out massively in this respect, especially as the 2nd row seat can’t be folded completely flat.
The Defender has a smaller load space than the D4, but it’s a good shape. However, I was appalled to learn that only a 5 seat 110 can have a fully flat load surface, if you want 7 seats the 2nd row seats don’t fold completely flat. I hoped this would be addressed with the 8 seat 130, but no, neither the 2nd or 3rd row seats fold flat, which is madness.
I do still use the ability to have 7 full size Adult seats in the D4, but it’s not very often these days and would probably be the first thing I’d compromise on. I know there is now a 7 Seat FFRR, but it would be at a big premium cost wise.
The 110 7 seater and 130 8 seater ridiculously don’t have a flat load bay surface.
The D5 does of course match the D4 in this respect, but I would want to be able to move the seats about manually rather than on a button, partly because I use the space under the seats for storage and ‘feel’ them down so as not to damage anything.
With regard to towing our boat, and other loads, I’m actually quite certain all the vehicles I’m rattling on about would do just as well as the D4 if fitted with AT tyres.
But, it would have to be one of the larger more powerful in terms of Torque engine options. I cannot be convinced that a 2l Diesel towing a 3tn trailer will make it up the likes of the hill out of Dartmouth as easily as the 3l TDV6 D4. Or even some of the long steep hills on A Roads between Hampshire and Devon/Cornwall.
I would however really like a Hybrid for it’s torque if nothing else in some situations.
One thing we really like about the D4 HSE Lux is the exceptional top end music system. We like all sorts of Music from classical to Punk, and I’m particularly partial to some 1980’s Psychobilly or traditional Heavy Metal.
Anyone who hasn’t listened to Motorhead’s ‘Born to Raise Hell’, The Meteors ‘Psycho Down, or even Pink’s ‘You Get My Love’ turned up loud on a really good in car system like the D4 top end one should remedy that immediately.
Obviously all our alternative vehicles mentioned come with a trim level option that has a similarly good quality system.
One thing the D4 has that none of the others do is a low waist line and correspondingly low window opening.
When manoeuvring a big trailer in a tight space it’s really helpful to be able to hang out the drivers window and keep an eye on the trailer and position of the car wheels. I understand it’s also a real bonus off-road too. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
Last edited by Nasher on 7th Nov 2022 3:32 pm. Edited 2 times in total
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| 7th Nov 2022 2:46 pm |
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Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2821
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And then there is the tailgate, which is such a big consideration, and so day-to-day for us, that I’d missed it until I thought about the break we just had.
The split top and bottom tailgate is so useful.
We sit on the lower half so much, often sheltering from the weather under the top part.
We have a heatproof sheet of honeycomb material so we can use a small camping stove on it.
I have a sheet of plywood I put on it to use it as a bench when working at the yard on my boat.
We stand on it with the top part closed.
I carry longer lengths of material and sometimes my hydraulic motorcycle workbench around in the D4 with the lower part down and the top part closed.
On a trip like we’ve just done, when one of us is in a shop for instance, the other can sit on the tailgate with the dog waiting in the fresh air.
And the list goes on.
The D5 in this respect doesn’t fully match the D4, in that you can’t carry a longer item with the top part closed, but the longer top part does give even better protection from the weather when raised with the ‘pop-out’ lower shelf in the in or out position.
The FFRR does have the split tailgate similar to the D4.
But the side hinged door on the Defender is obviously completely different, and having lived with the D3/4’s useful bit of kit would be a massive compromise for us if we went down the Defender route.
In fact it will probably be the thing that actually stops us buying one.
So my conclusion is that I’m probably not going to have a choice.
Despite my liking for the styling of the Defender we’ll have to go down the route of a D5, and live with the tailgate being slightly open all the way up when carrying a long load.
The styling issue is negated when we’d actually be in it, but I might have to build a fence between the house and drive so I can’t see it all the time.
And I’ll put off making the change all the time the D4 isn’t costing a fortune in my time and money to fix each month.
Unless anyone knows of a vehicle by another manufacturer that ticks every box above? Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
Last edited by Nasher on 7th Nov 2022 3:38 pm. Edited 3 times in total
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| 7th Nov 2022 2:46 pm |
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grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6415
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ineos grenadier?
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| 7th Nov 2022 2:49 pm |
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Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2821
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Grzesiul wrote:Ineos grenadier?
Good call, but they have side opening rear doors. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:00 pm |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10840
 
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Simon I entirely agree with every word you have written 
Greg - I'm on their mailing list & have seen a prototype RHD Grenadier, and I love the fact that it's named after one of my old haunts:- https://www.grenadierbelgravia.com/
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:01 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6766
  
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Not sure if the Bigger Toyota Land Cruiser (LC300) is available in UK? Probably not since it’s not available in “Europe”. But it’ll do what you want. Interior is slightly Toyota and plastic-y, though. Forget the prado.
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:05 pm |
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Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2821
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Thanks Nigel.
I was actually just about to PM you and get you to read it.
Being an 'outdoors' type person with a Dog I thought you may have a view. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:06 pm |
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grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6415
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it is cool concept but I think D4 is still more practical and more off-road able also you can get good example for peanuts while I build Grenadier on their site to come up to 63K for vehicle which has a lot of flaws in design as "proper offroader" IMHO
I would rather spent that cash on making D4 or older Defender into nice quiet 4x4 but pure electric
good luck searching but soon we all will be forced into super expensive EVs so not a brightest future for peeps towing stuff
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:07 pm |
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Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2821
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kajtzu wrote:Not sure if the Bigger Toyota Land Cruiser (LC300) is available in UK? Probably not since it’s not available in “Europe”. But it’ll do what you want. Interior is slightly Toyota and plastic-y, though. Forget the prado.
Thanks
I had an L100 for a while years ago but didn't keep it long because the third row seats folded up into the sides of the boot space and used up loads of room. I changed it for a 3.2 LWB Shogun and never really looked at the Landcruiser V8 when it needed changing as I brought my D3.
Worth a look though.
A couple of open questions as I know some Ex D3/4 owners still on here have moved on to them.
How would a reasonably new Volvo XC90 cope with towing 3tns of trailer across a hard packed but shingle beach?
How would it match everything else in my ramble above? Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:12 pm |
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Moleshome
Member Since: 15 Oct 2020
Location: Wokingham
Posts: 412
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| Re: D4 the LR Pinnacle? An Essay. |
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Nasher wrote:
The 195 miles home from the cottage we rented gave me too much time to think.
I wouldn’t have wanted to do the trip in any other vehicle.
I did a 430 mile round trip from Berkshire to Bala on Saturday, 9 hours in the car and I felt as fresh when I got back as if I'd spent 9 hours sat on the sofa.
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:14 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23866
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I made a list of all the things I wanted and used the most.
I was easily able to compromise on 7 seats (no children at home now), but not on a split tailgate.
I had a top spec. D5 for over 12k miles and the Sd6 engine was superb. As an overall package it just didn't suit me. I had no desire to own one, or more importantly buy one. We're all different though!
The best compromise, for me, was a FFRR. The boot isn't as practical as the D3/4, and only 5 seats, but in every other respect I use it as I did my D3/4's. I do occasionally miss the huge usable boot area of the D3/4, it has to be said.
The SDV8 does between 6-10 mpg more than my D4's, which is a bonus and the additional "toys" and performance help make up for the loss of practicality.
Of course if you want to buy a new one, you're talking mega bucks. I didn't have a problem with a 2.5 year old one with 20,500 miles. I've bought a LR warranty for it every year and will do until it's done over 100k miles at renewal. Then I don't know what to do! 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:17 pm |
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grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6415
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LT 6-10 MPG better than D4 with V6 hmmm wonder how
See lots of nice SDV8 L405 for sale but hard to convince the management and "roadTAX" would be killer right?
G
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:25 pm |
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Nasher
Member Since: 07 Mar 2009
Location: Clanfield, North of Pompey - UK
Posts: 2821
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Good to know it's not just me LT.
I couldn't live without the boot space, or flat floor, but would love the TDV8.
Perhaps I'll end up just re-building a D4 into the ultimate iteration with a load of new components instead.
D4HSE Lux
Delete the sunroof
Add a TDV8 - we know it can be done. Heaven doesn't want me, and hell is afraid I'll take over.
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:27 pm |
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grzesiul
Member Since: 11 May 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 6415
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TBH I have added remote heater, reversing camera, ACC and android auto to mine and TBH it is whats suits me best I would love manual seats as electric are so so so so so slow
G
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| 7th Nov 2022 3:34 pm |
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