Member Since: 20 Jun 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 164
D4 stopped and won't restart
Had a bit of an problem today. My D4 (2013 SDV6) cut out on the M25 at 70mph. Got safely to the hard shoulder but it wouldn't restart. Doesn't crank, no odd lights on the dash. I do recall the charge warning light coming on and feeling a slight jolt when it stalled. I first thought it had thrown the alternator belt but it hasn't. Put my GAP tool on it and got two codes: B1087-93 (LIN Bus "A" -
No operation) and P0A1A-87(2F) (Generator Control Module - Missing message). These are both alternator related LIN bus faults.
Got it recovered home (excellent service from the AA and it's contractor) and tried a jump start - still no crank. The gear selector does NOT rise when the ignition is turned on. As far as I can tell all the other electrical systems are working. GAP tool reports a low state of charge of the battery (about 25%) and a low voltage (below 12V). This, along with the DTCs present, to me indicates that the alternator has failed. However, I'm not sure that this would inhibit crank unless the PCM needs to see a signal from the alternator via the LIN bus before enabling crank. I assume that the "generator control module" is part and parcel of the alternator itself and not a stand-alone part.
Does anybody know how the cranking strategy works? Has anybody had a similar problem?
Going to leave it for today but would be very grateful for any help/suggestions on this one.
Suggest that it might be sensible to disconnect the battery & put on change until you need to get working on the car again.
I stress disconnect the battery as it might to causing damage to the alternator?
NJSSAm I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
15th Dec 2019 3:40 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26776
I would disconnect the alternator, then charge the battery. The alternator could be shorting out internally and draining all the batteries power. With the alt disconnected you should at least be able to make sure the engine cranks ok.
I presume your AA recovery man checked the obvious things like engine earth straps and battery connections?
The alternator is controlled by the PCM, it sounds like this could be your problem. But have you tried to turn the crank by hand to see if it turns freely.
Flack
15th Dec 2019 4:17 pm
Hobson
Member Since: 20 Jun 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 164
Haven't tried turning the engine over by hand yet - will do that tomorrow. Really worried it might be the dreaded snapped crank but there was no noise, just a sensation like going over a bit of a bump in the road. I would have thought (hoped!!!) there would have been a lot more noise and drama if the crank gave up at 70mph.
15th Dec 2019 5:16 pm
Hobson
Member Since: 20 Jun 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 164
Tried barring the engine over by hand - no joy, won't budge. Looks like another snapped crank to add to the tally. Always maintained, just a bit over 57K miles, never abused in the time I've had it, totally reliable up until now.
Hopefully just an unfortunate coincidence but it was serviced only last Tuesday by a local LR independent.
Now what? Fix it? scrap it?
16th Dec 2019 1:00 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5052
Well that's the news all discovery owners dread, sorry to hear your woes. I would have thought there is just enough residual value in it to justify a new engine. I think a new block will be in the region of £4k plus fitting and any other associated bits and bobs which will probably take you to somewhere between £5 & £6k minimum. If I am off on UK figures someone else will clarify.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
16th Dec 2019 1:11 pm
knwatkins
Member Since: 19 Sep 2018
Location: Poole, Dorset
Posts: 716
The chances are, at 70mph and the crank letting go, your engine block will also have warped and therefore be out of tolerance.
A recon engine will cost around £5k-£6k. This will be based on a £3k base charge, plus another £1k crank surcharge, plus another £1k block surcharge, plus the cost of any other bits such as rods, pistons, injectors etc. All plus VAT.
A brand new short engine will be around £12k including fitting.Kev
MY2014 L405 RR Vogue SE 4.4 SDV8 in Corris Grey
MY2010 L320 RRS HSE 3.0 TDV6 in Stornoway Grey
16th Dec 2019 2:34 pm
Weyboat
Member Since: 13 Apr 2018
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 273
Quote:
Hopefully just an unfortunate coincidence but it was serviced only last Tuesday by a local LR independent.
This happens only too frequently to be just a coincidence.
Hypothetical Situations...
Possibly (due to there being no dip stick) the car was started whilst there was no oil in the engine, mechanic realises his mistake and adds the oil hoping no one will notice.
Or,
The oil filter housing was refitted without the mesh support inside and the filter has collapsed.[/quote]Gone 2016 Landmark D4
Current 2015 HSE D4 - AKA - 'Gandalf the Grey'
16th Dec 2019 2:36 pm
eightfoot
Member Since: 12 Apr 2015
Location: sunny essex
Posts: 806
Hobson wrote:
Tried barring the engine over by hand - no joy, won't budge. Looks like another snapped crank to add to the tally. Always maintained, just a bit over 57K miles, never abused in the time I've had it, totally reliable up until now.
Hopefully just an unfortunate coincidence but it was serviced only last Tuesday by a local LR independent.
Now what? Fix it? scrap it?
i'd be popping back for a chat please excuse any grammer/punctuation mistakes,i'm thick,thankyou
current vehicles 2005 d3 2013 d4
Member Since: 20 Jun 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 164
Thanks for the heads-up but he's in Malvern I'm in Essex which makes it bit far away.
As regards the filter mesh idea, I used the car for a few days prior to this happening - would it not have manifested itself earlier?
Whatever the cause, looks like I'm in for big bill...
16th Dec 2019 5:37 pm
Hobson
Member Since: 20 Jun 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 164
Local independent has confirmed that it's the crankshaft but they are not able to get the body off to carry out the work. Can anyone recommend a good independent (or even main dealer if there is such a thing) in Essex that I could talk to please?
If you have a full, or good main, dealer service history they are the people who will help with getting JLR to pay for, or contribute to, the necessary work.
If not be aware that a main dealer will charge you an arm & a leg for whatever they do.
Before dong anything I suggest research the forum & read, the numerous, relevant threads.
When the unthinkable happened, I spent countless hours on the phone getting opinions from many independents including some well-known forum members such as SteveNorman and Disco_Mikey (thanks guys). I also spent days scouring the web to arm myself with as much information as possible because as I rightly found out – there are a lot of cowboys in the engine business!
Good luck.
NJSSAm I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
17th Dec 2019 11:09 am
Hobson
Member Since: 20 Jun 2018
Location: Essex
Posts: 164
Dead D4 - An Update
D4 has been with a Land Rover Service Centre since it went clunk. They came to the failed crankshaft diagnosis as well, confirming my worst fears. However, they have spoken with LR technical who also agreed with the diagnosis, and then approached Customer Relations on my behalf who have done the decent thing and offered to cover a very large proportion of the very large repair bill. The Warranty company should pick up the balance.
Very impressed with Service I've received so far from Service Centre and LR themselves.
I am now very relieved and rather happy needless to say!!!!
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