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frankv
Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Amsterdam area
Posts: 13
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Disco 3 pauzes when starting, cranks stops cranks starts. |
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Hi all, I have been having this problem for years now. And have never found a solution on this forum. So I'll try and describe it again.
My Disco 3 HSE V8 has just got a new battery on thursday. It did not survive winter according to the garage. Amongst other things I told them it sometimes did not crank, and they checked the starter motor connections. As they have done before. They gave it the thumbs up. I drove it home from the garage about 15km's over the motorway.
On saturday morning it did what it has been doing of and on for years now:
- I unlocked the car and put the key in the ignition
- waited for the check and the ping
- turned the key to start
- starter cranks about half a second or so, and then stops
- I keep the key in the starting position
- after about two seconds the starter motor start cranking again
- and the car starts
Luckily it now cranked and started, but there have been instances where it did not crank and stayed in the pauze zone. It is never a starting problem, when it cranks, it starts. I have the idea that there is a control signal somewhere that has a bad connection or so that makes the starter motor stop turning. Could this be the case? Where would I have to look for corroded connectors?
After it started I had short local drives and had to stop and start three times at locations that i had to visit. Three times it started instantly without any pauze or hesitation. So it is an intermittent fault. But I think it does it more when the car has been standing for a few days. I'm not really sure. That is why I wondered if it could be a voltage / connector problem on a control signal instead of the high power feed to the starter motor itself. When it cranks, it starts.
My brother has had a centrall locking problem with his BMW that could be traced back to a module where soldering connections had deteriorated over the years. Could this be something like that? And then, where...
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27th Mar 2021 4:54 pm |
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Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
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Hi,
What is the mileage?
Not sure every technical word is englisch, but since you are dutch i give it a go without looking it up first)
Basically there is a starter relay (12v) , a solonoid (relay ON the starter who pulls the bendix) and the starter motor....
All 3 can be the problem..... most common, dirty or burnt starter relay OR brushes IN the starter itself...
The first should be in the relay box somewere... the brushes... well.... changing the starter is the quickest way if you are there allready to remove it...
Starters are not very expensive.... the work on a v8 i do not know.... on a Diesel it a a time and vinger consuming job.... Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
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27th Mar 2021 7:06 pm |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10335
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For me I would hook up a lamp to the relay coil contacts under the bonnet.
Tape the bulb below the wipers.
Monitor bulb when there is a fault.
If the lamp is off when you get the pause,
Need to hook the lamp up in another way and repeat
First thing to do is swap the relay for another. As its cheap and easy
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27th Mar 2021 7:28 pm |
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frankv
Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Amsterdam area
Posts: 13
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@motolab: It has driven 209.000km
@motolab and pete k: Thanks' I'll try the relay first. That should be relatively easy to replace I think.
I also got the tip to check with the 2nd key. As someone said it might have to do with the immobilizing. Haven't used that for years, so it has to recharge I think.
So, 2nd key and starter relay in the relay box first.
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27th Mar 2021 8:20 pm |
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frankv
Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Amsterdam area
Posts: 13
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ps. Found this thread too that has some interesting info in it about the relay having to ground to start, and a wire that turned out to be loose. I'll check the voltages tomorrow
@pete k: you also gave some good info in this thread.
https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/not-cranking-key-167285.html
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27th Mar 2021 8:31 pm |
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Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10335
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I think there was a more recent thread too
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27th Mar 2021 8:51 pm |
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frankv
Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Amsterdam area
Posts: 13
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Today I checked the relays. All the voltages correspond with how it should be. The battery is new, I charged it overnight on a CTEK charger. Then I tried to start the car. And nothing...
Well not really nothing. I noticed that I forgot a sound in my first post. When I turn the key to ignition you hear a clack sound. When I remove the relay next to the battery, you don't hear it anymore. So the clack sound is probably the relay on the starter motor itself? As it is quite loud and can be heard from within the car. It goes clack and then silence.
Sometimes when I keep the key in the ignition position after the clack sound, the starter motor starts to turn, then dies. I tried about 10 times, and finally it started as if nothing was wrong. I then drove it and stopped, restarted a few times at locations I had to be, no problems anymore.
So is it the starter motor that is the problem? Should I have that changed?
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3rd Apr 2021 10:07 am |
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Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
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Motolab wrote: looks/sounds brushes IN the starter itself...
if they are worn, the magnetic power or field inside is insuffiecient and the armature "hangs" or can "hang" in between magentic fields, so does not turn... only a shock or vibration, will trigger a turn and then it will start ok...
changing/renewing the brushes... well.... changing the starter is the quickest way if you are there allready to remove it...
Starters are not very expensive.... the work on a v8 i do not know.... on a Diesel it a a time and vinger consuming job.... Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
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3rd Apr 2021 10:25 am |
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frankv
Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Amsterdam area
Posts: 13
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Thanks! I'll have it replaced.
It has been with the garage a few times with this fault, and they could not reproduce it. But it kind of drives me nuts not being able to rely on it starting or not. Especially as I want to go offroading in the Alps or Pyrenees again next summer! Or Iceland...
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3rd Apr 2021 11:17 am |
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frankv
Member Since: 07 May 2015
Location: Amsterdam area
Posts: 13
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The starter motor has been replaced. The one time that I started it up to now it worked incredibly well. Very fast starting compared to the old starter motor. It spinned up very fast, so even when the old unit did work, it did only work just enough. The new starter is a night and day difference.
The price was a little eyewatering though... 480 euro incl VAT for the starter motor alone. This was just for the part, excluding the work Must be a factory original 24h delivery part with added bonus spins or something.
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8th Apr 2021 2:00 pm |
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Trailered Movements
Member Since: 16 Jan 2020
Location: East/West Sussex Coast Borders
Posts: 1198
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I know you got this sorted, but for future readers, I had a fork truck that did similar.
It turned out to be a worn ignition barrel.
Fitted another and no more problems.
Dave 2011 Discovery 4 Commercial SDV6 (Gone)
2010 RRS TDV8 (Gone)
1980 OBLIC 4.0ltr Range Rover (went a long time ago)
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8th Apr 2021 2:07 pm |
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Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815
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frankv wrote:The starter motor has been replaced. The one time that I started it up to now it worked incredibly well. Very fast starting compared to the old starter motor. It spinned up very fast, so even when the old unit did work, it did only work just enough. The new starter is a night and day difference.
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Sounds like worn brushes/bad magnetic field indeed... quite common in the car industry itself...
But rather unpredictable regarding mileage, i have seen starters still working on 400k plus engines and worn out ones on 100k engines, i presume the usage is the main factor, but hard to check when buying a motor, since nothing records the starts as far as i know.. Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
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8th Apr 2021 7:52 pm |
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