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Blade
Member Since: 22 Apr 2005
Location: Bury Lancs
Posts: 8
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| Electronic Park Brake Fault |
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Since picking up my Disco3 it has spent a lot of time back at the garage for many different things. The latest of which occurred about 4 weeks ago.
I was travelling home on the motorway and I started to feel a vibration through the steering wheel. I took my foot off the accelerator and as the vehicle slowed down it started to shake severely, I thought I had a bad puncture and the tyre was about to come off. Luckily I was close to a motorway service so I managed to stop there. I got out of my vehicle only to be horrified by thick black smoke pouring out from the rear right wheel and the disk was glowing red. I ran to the services and bought 4 litres of water and quickly poured it over the wheel and brake. If I had not of been able to stop at the services my Discovery would now be a burnt out wreck!!
After my vehicle was recovered and taken once again back to the garage, both rear disks and drum brakes were replace. Apparently the park brake had been rubbing, but as yet I don’t know why this happened and whether it will happen again. Now I am travelling around with two big bottles of water in the boot and I’m nervous every time I have to go on the motorway in case that it happens again and I cannot find anywhere to stop.
I spoke to one of my Dads friends who works at a LR garage and he told me a similar tale when he was driving one of the garages Disco 3. Apparently there is a problem with the electronic park brake which Ford have known about for some time and they are trying to find a solution.
I don’t know if you have come across this fault before but I would be interested if you have.
I have sent yet another letter to the MD at Landrover but as yet have had no reply to this latest incident. 
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 27th Apr 2005 9:45 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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| Re: Electronic Park Brake Fault |
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Blade wrote:
I have sent yet another letter to the MD at Landrover but as yet have had no reply to this latest incident.
Blade - if my experience is anything to go by, you don't have much chance of even an acknowledgment from the MD (or CEO), which unfortunately is just in keeping with the way LR seem to be treating CS issues at present. BN seems to have managed to get some attention from them though, and perhaps can give some pointers?
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| 27th Apr 2005 9:52 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Ecosse, although I have some attention from LR, I have had to get one repair carried out myself by a non LR group mechanic and LR have promissed remuneration. I have promisses, but to date no actual results from LR and it is early days for the remuneration. The point is, I don't think many of us want the remuneration, we simply want the vehicles to work and straight talking from LR. My contact I have to admit is proving to be very good and is trying very hard to help, but I do not have some of the serious issues (yet) that some of the others have. Time will tell.
A point that is very clear to me is that most of the problems appear to be electronic or connected with electronics. This is a worry, because unlike mechanical problems you can often hear or feel them and get repairs carried out before damage or injury is caused. In 'blades' case the problem appears to be based around the electronics again. Clearly the shuddering was the ABS working as the parking brake was activated somehow.
Now a distrubing fact I have found is that if the parking brake switch is caught or touched at speed, it will apply the brakes. This in turn activates the emergency braking system via the ABS, which will cause the shudder (ABS working) and bring the vehicle to an emergency halt. Continued driving will be dangerous as the parking brakes apply and of course will get extremely hot. It is possible I am sure to not even know if the switch was caught because it is so light. For instance a coat could catch the switch unknowingly and activate the brakes. Can blade give more detail to my private mail?
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| 28th Apr 2005 6:38 am |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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BN wrote:
Now a distrubing fact I have found is that if the parking brake switch is caught or touched at speed, it will apply the brakes. This in turn activates the emergency braking system via the ABS, which will cause the shudder (ABS working) and bring the vehicle to an emergency halt.
Yes, I read somewhere about this being demo'd by LR/LR Experience?? as being effectively a fail-safe emergency braking system. Must say I had thought it sounded great, but had not thought of the issue of something catching on the brake switch 
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| 28th Apr 2005 10:27 am |
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DiscoMad
Member Since: 11 Jan 2005
Location: Warwickshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 190
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BN, Ecosse,
Whereas I don’t dispute that the park brake switch could be caught be a coat, it is failrly well protected by surrounding facia, and I would expect that it is easier to catch the suspension and transfer box levers or even the gear stick, much easier than the park brake.
At least emergency braking is a feature ! (how else would you have arranged such a safety feature , which, in most all other vehicles is through the handbrake lever ?)
I haven’t tried this yet, but don’t you have to hold the lever for the emergency braking to apply ? it’s not as if you pull the switch and that’s it – the vehicle just brings itself to a halt. Page 29 of the maual states that you must hold the lever up and there is a warning indicator accompanied with the message ‘caution! Parkbrake applied’
Additionaly, I know you have sent a pm for more information, but the noise and vibration Blade experienced could actually have been just the shoes binding on the drum (or pads on the disks?) rather than ABS, and that might have been a sad mechanical failure rather than the parkbrake servo failing.
Just want to cool things a bit – it is important to be pragmatic/accurate about such an important safety aspect of the vehicle.
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| 28th Apr 2005 11:10 am |
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Kevin
Member Since: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Poole or Somewhere at Sea
Posts: 106
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BN
Give you emergency park brake a go!.
The application is quite progrssive. The brakes come on gently and then increase in pressure accompanied / controlled by the ABS. The info centre gives a rapid sequence of boings and gives a visual warning. If you just flick the switch all you get is the warning as the brake application is slightly delayed.
I tried mine as I wanted to know that I could stop without a proper handbrake. I have brought the veichle to a safe stop from 70 MPH Kevin
BAS TUNE
Faultmate MSV-2 MULTI VEHICLE
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| 28th Apr 2005 12:26 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Guys, I have tried the emergency brake and I agree with what you all say. The ABS may sound aggressive if someone has never used it before and could cause a bit of panic. I do not discount a failure, believe me as it is electrical and you can clearly see from my other postings, I am not happy with the electrics. I simply asked for pm details to avoid another potential string of concern which may have been something that was an unforseen error. Re catching items in the switch, a zip of one of the LR Experience guys caught and caused a similar effect, that is why I asked also. If it is found to be another fault, then it is a very serious one and must be looked into with the rest.
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| 28th Apr 2005 1:56 pm |
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Blade
Member Since: 22 Apr 2005
Location: Bury Lancs
Posts: 8
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I know about the emergency stop facility with the park brake and the fault that occurred to my Disco is not the same. The vibration I felt was not the ABS it was caused by the rear disk starting to melt and seize up.
I have today received a reply to my third letter to Phil Popham MD, although it was Adrienne Welch who replied.
His reply
“The concern you raised in relation to the rear brake must have been most worrying and I cannot apologise enough for any distress this may have caused. Having discussed the matter with your dealership, I am informed that the outstanding issue has been addressed.â€
The mechanic at my dealer does not know what caused the fault or if it will reoccur.
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| 28th Apr 2005 4:13 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Blade, thank you for that. What I fear is that we are picking up issues that are very serious as individuals, none so much as the brakes either failing or locking in your case. None of us are really getting results and your MP wrote to the dealership, not LR. I must say, that I have a very good LR CS liaison, but I also must say, that they have not yet produced any results for me only promisses. Perhaps this is the time to gather some serious evidence together and place it in front of LR. Any Lawyers out there brave enough to take on Ford.
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| 28th Apr 2005 5:16 pm |
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NightFox
Member Since: 02 Apr 2005
Location: Bedfordshire
Posts: 125
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| Re: Electronic Park Brake Fault |
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Blade wrote: I got out of my vehicle only to be horrified by thick black smoke pouring out from the rear right wheel and the disk was glowing red. I ran to the services and bought 4 litres of water and quickly poured it over the wheel and brake. If I had not of been able to stop at the services my Discovery would now be a burnt out wreck!!
Just a cautionary note – wheel brake fires caused by overheating are not uncommon on aircraft when they land. The golden rule is that the overheated brakes are NEVER doused with water, as the “shock†to the components of cooling so quickly can cause them to explode, (a bit like the way a glass shatters if you heat it up by filling it with boiling water, empty it and fill it with cold water) with a force and fragmentation likely to kill or seriously injure anyone standing close by. You’re better off using an alternative such as foam, which “suffocates†the fire by removing the air, rather than rapidly removing the heat which is what the water does. I should stress that I’m not a fire expert, so please don’t take this as gospel! And I appreciate that there are going to be some differences between the wheel brakes on a Tornado and a D3  .
Of course, if you think your D3 is about to burst into flames and all you’ve got is a bucket of water, then you’re probably not going to want to just stand back and watch. 
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| 6th May 2005 10:45 am |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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Basically to not get an answer or explanation to this situation is rediculous as it could be a life or death problem. The problem is that LR (Ford) look at the complaints and just palm them off via their CS. Most people are quite content to go away then. The number of people with problems is quite small (at the moment) to the numbers of vehicles sold I am sure.
It would be very interesting to know just how many of us have purchased the car out of our hard earned cash and yes I did guys. Or how many are company vehicles, in which case problems rarely get reported until a service or it causes inconvenience to the profits.
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| 6th May 2005 11:16 am |
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cmyers_uk
Member Since: 10 Apr 2005
Location: Near Bristol, UK
Posts: 433
 
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BN,
Sorry but I fail to see the distinction between Company Car drivers and you paying with your hard earned cash. The costs of owning a Company car such as the D3 are high because of the tax and the fact that generally the car is part of your package, if you dont take it you usually get cash back instead. Basically the tax on Company cars is now so great large numbers of people dont take up there options and now large Companys like HP , Oracle stopped their Company car scheme and do private leasing due to not enought takers.
I think you may find that not all owners are the same irrespective of whether they paid cash , Company Car, Loan , Private Lease. The problems to you are not always problems to others, it does not mean your problems arent valid or shouldnt be resolved.
FYI When ive had a Company car in the past (My D3 isnt) as Im not paying the Garage bills it would go in for the slightest thing wrong.
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| 6th May 2005 12:41 pm |
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BN
Member Since: 18 Mar 2005
Location: Here
Posts: 6463
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cymers, thank you, the point was about danger and being picked up earlier by an owner and not a company driver. I run 49 company cars and 32 LGV's plus a few other vehicles in my businesses and I am fully aware of the care or lack of in some instances, plus the costs of tax etc. The point was that if a car is purchased from hard earned money, usually people look after them a little better, yes there are exceptions, but very few. In my case I look after my personal cars and rely on them, plus I do pay cash for my own vehicles, which are all 4x4's other than my motorhome. The other point is that the brakes may not be picked up by the majority of people anyway and the problem blade had is dangerous.
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| 6th May 2005 5:47 pm |
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cmyers_uk
Member Since: 10 Apr 2005
Location: Near Bristol, UK
Posts: 433
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Quote: If I had not of been able to stop at the services my Discovery would now be a burnt out wreck!!
I really cant see any Company car or individual driver ignoring this and not raising it as an issue. I think I just have a different view of paying with your hard earned cash against a Company driver who pays tax and usually and allowance from his hard earned salary.
Keep smiling I respect your views, I do agree the cause of the fault should be found and if necessary a recall issued if it effects other cars.
Regards
Chris
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| 6th May 2005 7:38 pm |
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Blade
Member Since: 22 Apr 2005
Location: Bury Lancs
Posts: 8
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Hi All
Just thought I would let you know after being assured the problem with the park brake had been fixed with the replacement of the disk and drum brakes. The other day the park brake stayed on when I drove off my drive. After driving back and forth numerous times I managed to get it to release.
The problem with the electronic hand brake seems to be caused by the mechanism which automatically adjusts the brake when it starts to wear. But it seems to have adjusted when it did not need to thus causing the brake to continue to rub after the solenoid has released the park brake.
I have not yet informed the garage as I'm rather fed up with having to take my D3 to be fixed and the inconvenience of being without my D3
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| 6th May 2005 7:44 pm |
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