Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
Engine not starting after swap.
So after my crank snapped I have swapped the engine with another from a breaker. The breaker sent me a photo of it running.
Fitted the engine with all new belts and oil pump.
Bled fuel system at the Schrader valve. Cranked and it started for a few seconds and cut out. So cranked and it started again for a few seconds and cut out. Now won’t start at all.
I have a pressure gauge coming to check pressure at the valve.
I had three fault codes,
One for fuel pressure variation,
One for turbo actuator (can’t remember exact code)
One for something else I’ve forgotten.
Before the engine swap I had only one fault code for air suspension which was pressure rising too slowly when filling. However now that code has gone and I have lots of other weird codes arrived in lots of ECU’s!
It all seems bizarre!
Any help?!
17th Aug 2024 1:46 pm
Bicycle repairman
Member Since: 18 Sep 2019
Location: Cumbria
Posts: 188
Clear all the codes first then try it then reread codes and see where your at then check plugs and connectors and ground wires and vacuum hoses, fully charge batteryD4 GS let the retro fit begin
Heated steering wheel
Aftermarket TPMS
Double Din head unit satnav and TV
Reverse Camera
Cubby fridge
Door panel upgrade
Mood lighting
Digital Dash personalised
Back lit sun visors
4.5 Facelift front, rear and memory mirrors
Stainless bumper tread plate
6 pot Brembo conversion
HSE heated memory seats
Retro fit auto lights and wipers
LR 663 Defender alloys
275 45 20 GG AT3s
quarter of a D3
17th Aug 2024 3:09 pm
Disco-Jim
Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
I cleared the codes for the engine and they haven’t come back. In fact they only appeared the first time after it had started before it cut out. The other weird codes have stayed.
Can the GAP IID show the fuel rail pressure?
17th Aug 2024 4:13 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10676
Maybe on 2007 and later.
They take a lot get started. As it takes a lot to get the fuel through the system.
17th Aug 2024 4:51 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5042
Disco-Jim wrote:
I cleared the codes for the engine and they haven’t come back. In fact they only appeared the first time after it had started before it cut out. The other weird codes have stayed.
Can the GAP IID show the fuel rail pressure?
Yes, it's available in "live values" for the engine under "fuel pressure" (not fuel rail sensor) and should be 27,550kPa or thereabouts with engine at idle. Non running HPFP readings are meaningless and should be ignored!! It takes a lot of cranking to get the rails fully up to pressure as Pete has alluded to.
Do not delete any codes until you have either emailed them to yourself or written them down, as these are critical info now if there's a problem! yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
17th Aug 2024 5:25 pm
Disco-Jim
Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
Hi, yes after deleting them I realised my mistake!
Just seems bizarre I have error codes for things like the heater stepper motor etc and on all the vents when there were no codes here before the engine swap.
I can’t get it to start so cannot therefore test the HPFP. Don’t really want to take the plunge and buy it for it not to be needed!
I’ve googled the codes and searched lots of forums and never found a definitive answer.
17th Aug 2024 7:09 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5042
Forget the codes for now as they are likely to be a result of voltage drop when cranking or poor state of battery charge.
Stick a charger on it and get it up to a minimum of 12.6v then swing it til it fires! (10 - 15 secs)yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
17th Aug 2024 7:22 pm
Disco-Jim
Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
L319 - Discovery 3 2006
Vehicle scanned on 19-08-2024 08:26
Using IIDTool BT V4.0 B3998
Body Control
B1C50-24 (2E) Crank switch - General signal failure - signal stays high
( at 324470 km )
B1D13-15 (2E) Interior lamps 1 circuit - General electrical failure - circuit short to battery or open
( at 324470 km )
Instrument Pack
U0132-87 (28) Lost communication with ride level control module - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
U0184-87 (2F) Lost communication with audio unit - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
Parking Brake
U0100-87 (A8) Lost communication with engine control module/powertrain control module 'A' - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
( at 324472 km )
Suspension
C1A03-1C (AF) Front left height sensor - General electrical failure - circuit voltage out of range
( at 324472 km )
Transfer Case
U0132-86 (2F) Lost communication with ride level control module - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid
( at 324472 km )
Vehicle Dynamic
U0421-68 (0B) Invalid data received from ride level control module - Algorithm based failure - event information
( at 324472 km )
Ventilation
B1A59-13 (2F) Sensor 5 volt supply circuit - General electrical failure - circuit open
( at 324472 km )
B1A62-15 (2F) Pressure sensor - General electrical failure - circuit short to battery or open
( at 324472 km )
B1B74-00 (2C) Front foot-defrost mode stepper actuator
B1B75-00 (6C) Front foot-face mode stepper actuator
( at 324472 km )
B1B76-00 (6C) Front left air blend stepper actuator
( at 324472 km )
B1B77-00 (6C) Front right air blend stepper actuator
( at 324472 km )
B1B78-84 (28) System pressure - Bus signal/message failure - signal is below allowable range
B1B78-85 (2F) System pressure - Bus signal/message failure - signal is above allowable range
19th Aug 2024 7:38 am
Disco-Jim
Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
So fully charged battery over weekend. Still no start.
Those are the codes I retrieved this morning.
Really at a loss now of what to do.
On GAPIID, I can see fuel pressure but not rail pressure. Idly just says NA.
With ignition on and cranking fuel pressure is 570kPa.
This is the code I would be looking in to, B1C50-24 (2E) Crank switch - General signal failure - signal stays high( at 324470 km ). Check the crank sensor connection is on fully.
All the others you can ignore for now, but I suspect once it starts the others will clear.
The stepper blend motor code I used to see on loads of Disco's not a problem until they fail for good.
Flack
19th Aug 2024 7:57 am
Disco-Jim
Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
Thanks, ive checked the connector is fully together but still not starting. I can see the RPM when cranking in GAP IID. Would it not show the RPM if the crank sensor wasnt connected fully?
It also still trys to start if you spray a smidge of brake cleaner of into the air intake.
19th Aug 2024 8:16 am
Disco-Jim
Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
Right, cleared all the faults.
Cranked no start. Now left with these:
L319 - Discovery 3 2006
Vehicle scanned on 19-08-2024 09:39
Using IIDTool BT V4.0 B3998
Instrument Pack
U0184-87 (27) Lost communication with audio unit - Bus signal/message failure - missing a message
Suspension
C1A03-1C (AF) Front left height sensor - General electrical failure - circuit voltage out of range
( on 05-09-2028 09:27:47 at 324472 km )
Transfer Case
U0132-86 (2C) Lost communication with ride level control module - Bus signal/message failure - signal is invalid
( on 05-09-2028 09:27:48 at 324472 km )
Vehicle Dynamic
U0421-68 (0B) Invalid data received from ride level control module - Algorithm based failure - event information
( on 05-09-2028 09:29:37 at 324472 km )
Ventilation
B1B78-84 (2F) System pressure - Bus signal/message failure - signal is below allowable range
( on 05-09-2028 09:27:46 at 324472 km )
Basically nothing helpful
The pressure sensor on the fuel rail i unplugged and it jumped to 179000kPa. Plugged it back in and read the same 350kPa.
I know someone said cranking rail pressure should be ignored. however the pressure with ignition on or cranking doesnt change. Would that illude to a gooosed pump or try sensor first?
19th Aug 2024 8:45 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10676
It’s rather dangerous. But undo one of the nuts on an injector half a turn and see if it’s got fuel.
It’s very high pressure, so take safety measures
19th Aug 2024 10:42 am
Disco-Jim
Member Since: 01 Mar 2024
Location: Wisbech
Posts: 71
Well I cracked the end of the pipe where it meets the rail as was easier to reach.
Then cranked it for 5 seconds and this was the result
Click image to enlarge
19th Aug 2024 12:16 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5042
The injectors need a minimum of 150bar (start pressure) to operate which is generated in the HPFP when cranking. You need an absolute minimum of 10 s cranking time for the HPFP to fill and pressurise all the pipework and rails or it will not start!
You could try a sip of start ya b@st@rd which will fire the engine and help the HPFP up to pressure. Check the diesel EMS fuses in the BJB just in case there's one blown.
The HPFP rail pressure before engine start is meaningless and the fuel rail pressure sensor value is replaced in GAP by "fuel pressure" but only relevant when engine is running!!!!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
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into the air intake.
