Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Riccarton Disco wrote:
Sorry, going slightly off topic now but I'm curious......how does a D4 oil pressure switch work in that case??
The switch itself is similar to the one fitted to the D3, but unlike the D3 it is not hardwired to the warning indication and is only used as in input to the IPC. The software decides if and when to illuminate the warning depending on the fault mask, engine status and the time required before the warning is latched on etc.
So for example on a D3 you turn on the ignition and the oil light comes on as there is no pressure.
On the D4 you turn on the ignition and the light does not come on, even though there is no pressure.
On a D3 if you have a transient low pressure then the light will flicker on and off.
On a D4 a transient low pressure will be detected by the switch but no warning will be illuminated.
I think the D4 setup is pants, but there you go.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 24 Jan 2013
Location: Scottish Borders
Posts: 565
Wow Thanks Robbie but - - - why on earth can't an oil pressure switch just be a switch?
Then again what on earth is wrong with a dipstick??
In the early eighties my wife Renault 11 (stop laughing - it was nice at the time ) had both an electric gauge and a manual dipstick as back-up. If LR want to go the gauge route why not leave a dipstick as a back-up? Perhaps they've cut the price so much they need to save the pennies
17th Jun 2015 1:29 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
I'd rather have a proper oil pressure gauge than a simple switch given the choice.
I do like the electronic dipstick though.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Robbie - no, the dealer didn't take it into the workshop, just looked at the message on the dash, looked under the bonnet for any oil leak & at the exhaust, assured me that it hadn't lost oil (& warned me not to top up the oil though!) and then diagnosed it as needing the switch replaced....
17th Jun 2015 9:27 pm
HughMartin
Member Since: 30 Mar 2008
Location: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 751
Robbie wrote:
I'd rather have a proper oil pressure gauge than a simple switch given the choice.
I do like the electronic dipstick though.
Hi Robbie,
Do you have to wait for the oil to warm up and then switch the engine off for 10 minutes before you get the oil level & volume on your IIDTool? These options aren't showing on mine when I look at the live value selections when I first plug it in.
.
18th Jul 2015 7:24 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Mine will display on the IID at any time, including engine running.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 10 Jan 2015
Location: Angus
Posts: 1201
Very true. According to the Haynes manual my D3 needs 5.5 litres of oil and there's 1.75 litres' difference between the lower dip stick mark and the upper. That means 4.7 litres should get the level onto the dipstick. So last weekend I poured in 5 litres and went for a cuppa. When I returned, nothing showing. So I turned the engine over for a couple of minutes (up on axle stands, but pretty level; and no warning light showing). Still nothing on dipstick So I impatiently chucked in the whole of the 6th litre. A while later it was sitting 2mm above the top mark. First time I'd changed my own oil and filter (excluding lawn mower) since the '80s. Completed full service. Running like a dream. 8)Went for a job as a human cannonball. Not the right calibre.
But here I go:
You have a warning message of a failed system - a system that doesn't give you a fast reading or any reading if you have turned the engine over or being running for a while. Delayed action device that only gives readings that are in increments.
To fix it you have to wait a while whilst the dealer comes up with a replacement vehicle...a month.......another delay.........(why don't they loan you a hired vehicle ? & just get the job done)
Then when they do the job the sump gasket seal has to set overnight.....simple task with another built in delay...just what sealant are they using ? Is this another hi-tech innovation that does some task beyond being a simple gasket seal material......what's wrong with the usual & very much available RTV sealants that have been here since at least the mid 80's....Loctite, Dow Corning + many more must have a solution that isn't a 24 hr cure ?
Or is this stuff linked to the Canbus & has to have a program adjustment to prevent another warning system....or is to combat some other possible situation that is extreme........ITS A SUMP GASKET.
Am I missing something here ? We are talking of detecting a lubricant level in a passenger vehicle used by bill paying customers...like us...it isn't an aero engine or something military where talking a reading is prejudicial to personal safety / integrity or for that matter something in a university laboratory or anything that difficult or complex.
Taking an engine oil level reading isn't rocket science either....even though we now drive far more sophisticated vehicles with control systems that make them faster, more powerful, more reliable maybe easier to use & look after for the guy that uses it & has to do a little bit of "user" maintenance.
A Dipstick It's a simple check of whether there is sufficient oil for the engine to be used safely for the immediate journey intended without incurring irreparable & costly engine damage....or not....you may have to pour an amount of oil in....unless I am mistaken that part of the procedure hasn't been (yet) automated, computerised or made a return to dealer task.
I realise that some don't know (they have even written in here to ask if the oil level light should come on at all in a set of miles...i.e. new engine bedding or running in...or what is normal engine oil consumption ?) they write to a forum to ask instead of being able to perform the simple dip the oil check
Some others don't want to have to stop or open the bonnet (hood) to perform this relatively simple task & possibly get an oily hand or use a tissue to wipe the level indicator (aka "dipstick") they prefer a warning light....yet if the "system" says put oil in you have to open the bonnet (hood) anyway.
Multitudes of others haven't a problem with a manual dipstick check of the demon engine oil fluid level....having a simple, fast, reliable system that apart from the hugely remote possibility of the dipstick "failing" .....is a common sense thing. These aforesaid realistic people who want something fast, reassuring & pretty hard to get wrong...except for those maybe being naive enough to not realise there is some user maintenance....that is additional to adding fuel, washer fluid etc.
The words from Ecosse above that a dealer "looks under the bonnet for oil leaks, looks at the exhaust & then states it's OK to proceed" (when they may have a diagnostic tool to gauge the actual level) is preposterous...possibly just one step beyond us all having diagnostic tools to diagnose this (& other things possibly) as essential kit for vehicle integrity.....
OK keen amateurs may elect to do this....many won't...similarly many users don't even have or need a tyre pressure gauge.....sorry.......but that's been automated too - but at least this has the option of using a standard garage airline.....unless you want to adjust & correct tyre pressures with nitrogen..(possibly subject of other threads)
Engine Oil Level - Whats at stake is important:
get it wrong too empty damaged engine EXPENSIVE
get it wrong TOO FULL equally EXPENSIVE
So...bring back, offer as standard, offer as an accessory a DIP STICK.....even fit the electronic gizmo & a dipstick.....maybe some enterprising individual will offer it as an option that can be retrofitted.
A business opportunity not to be missed....note revised signature line.
Alternative may J/LR will take the system one step further ..... fit a system that dials out on a sim card enabled device to tell LR that something is amiss...oil level low they can then contact the dealer who can than contact you by phone email or even snail mail.....but the would be silly with lots of delays........I seem to recall writing about delays
SWMBO'd suggested J/LR could try a crystal ball mounted in the space adjacent to the real analogue clock to add symmetry to the dashboard.....besides oil levels it could do other checks that could make up for the lack of a SatNav disk update blighting those with D3's & no doubt will happen with D4's given time.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
18th Jul 2015 10:49 pm
barryp
Member Since: 24 Dec 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 138
I wonder if some enterprising person could design an aftermarket dipstick that used the oil drain suction tube?
After all it goes to the bottom of the sump
Regards
Barry2017 Range Rover Sport TDV6 L494 Fuji White
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Ex Member Range Rover Club NSW
I know there's no physical dipstick on the D4, but what's that black plastic part sticking out on the left of the engine that looks like one?
Click image to enlarge
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2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
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dafuq? You mean it doesn't have a sump plug? --
2010 Defender Puma 90 + BAS remap + Alive IC + Slickshift + Ashcroft ATB rear
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It does have a bung, but vacuuming is quicker and cleaner. No guards have to come off, you don't have to raise the vehicle and go underneath. I found that when you remove the sump bung, the oil spurts out, hits the cross member and goes everywhere. Might be able to avoid this if the vehicle was high up on a ramp and you could more accurately position a container but mine wasn't and so I couldn't.
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Thanks Robbie but - - - why on earth can't an oil pressure switch just be a switch?
) had both an electric gauge and a manual dipstick as back-up. If LR want to go the gauge route why not leave a dipstick as a back-up? Perhaps they've cut the price so much they need to save the pennies 
So I impatiently chucked in the whole of the 6th litre. A while later it was sitting 2mm above the top mark. 
First time I'd changed my own oil and filter (excluding lawn mower) since the '80s. 
Completed full service. Running like a dream. 8)
