Niblets
Member Since: 02 Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
  
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| Gear change inconsistant 3rd to 4th |
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Hi. I have a late 2010MY D4 HSE that I've owned for around a year now - really enjoy the car but have experienced a few niggles.
An issue with the gearbox is proving to be a persistent ongoing problem. It has been into the dealers on numerous occasion but they are unable to identify the cause of the fault.
The issue is with the auto gear change point from 3rd to 4th. Driving in urban condition, so slow traffic and 30 mph limits, the car will hold 3rd gear until around 35 mph (2000 rpm or thereabouts). If you slow down so it drops back into 3rd then slowly increase speed the change point into 4th is the same (35 mph ish). This is from first starting it in the morning and continues regardless of engine temperature.
But. If I pull over, switch the engine off then on and continue driving, the gear change occurs nicely at 30 mph and will continue to do so for the rest of the day or until the car has been switched of for at least 6 hours.
Additionally, after first setting of in the car in the morning (or after it has been left for6 or so hours), again with 3rd gear being held as usual, if I put the accelerator hard down in 3rd at around 20 mph for just enough time to hear the engine being dragged down then release the accelerator (so no real increase in speed) and the gently increase speed the change up to 4th occurs at 30 mph.
This car behaviour has been completely consistent for about 4 months. I drive in the same style and same journey route. Gearbox resets and software updates by the dealer have made no difference.
Landrover CRC are now getting involved but the dealer is now suggesting there is no fault as nothing can be seen on their diagnostics. My understanding is that no components have actually been replaced and that the diagnostics are more the reading of fault codes rather than more investigative dynamic testing.
I would really appreciate your views on this. Has anybody else experienced the same?
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 25th Jul 2013 10:23 pm |
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A1GSS
Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Saffron Walden, Essex
Posts: 4691
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That's not a symptom of the well known gearbox software update problem is it? ____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
Gone: 20MY Jaguar iPace HSE, Silicon Silver
Gone: 17MY RR Evoque SE Tech, Loire Blue
Gone: 08MY Discovery 3 XS, Stornoway Grey
Gone: 07MY FFRR TDV8 Vogue, Stornoway Grey
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| 26th Jul 2013 1:01 am |
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A1GSS
Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Saffron Walden, Essex
Posts: 4691
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This thread refers:
http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic91114.html ____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
Gone: 20MY Jaguar iPace HSE, Silicon Silver
Gone: 17MY RR Evoque SE Tech, Loire Blue
Gone: 08MY Discovery 3 XS, Stornoway Grey
Gone: 07MY FFRR TDV8 Vogue, Stornoway Grey
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| 26th Jul 2013 1:02 am |
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Niblets
Member Since: 02 Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
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Thanks Graham - on the previous visit to the dealer they did say that a significant software update had been installed (this was about a month or so ago). They didn't give me the details but perhaps it relates the fix described in that thread - I don't have any noticeable hesitation. I'm collecting the car today so will ask for details.
It didn't fix the problem though. It's as if a sensor is "stuck" which makes the car hold 3rd gear. Engine switched off and straight back on or a sharp blip on the throttle at low speed seems to reset something and all is then fine. Doesn't matter if you do this 2 minutes into a journey or an hour into the journey. It's 100% repeatable, after "forcing" it to change up earlier it will remain like that until it has been left for a good 6 hours. Of course, if you drive it harder or going up a hill etc then the change occurs later as expected.
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| 26th Jul 2013 8:23 am |
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A1GSS
Member Since: 12 Sep 2010
Location: Saffron Walden, Essex
Posts: 4691
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Ah, OK. Just wondered if it might be connected. I'm no expert but hopefully someone else will be along soon that is... ____
Gone: 10MY L320 RR Sport HSE, Ipanema Sand
Gone: 20MY Jaguar iPace HSE, Silicon Silver
Gone: 17MY RR Evoque SE Tech, Loire Blue
Gone: 08MY Discovery 3 XS, Stornoway Grey
Gone: 07MY FFRR TDV8 Vogue, Stornoway Grey
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| 26th Jul 2013 8:35 am |
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amazing
Member Since: 05 Mar 2011
Location: chengdu
Posts: 1542
 
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mine used to feel like this when cold. Even though engine gets warm as I am in traffic the gearbox does not so seems to hold o. 3rd forever.
mentioned to LR engineers in a meeting and the gearbox guy said temp of gearbox affects this...he also said the new 8 speed would impress me.....not avail in China....and not without its issues....so maybe not the best guy on gearboxes...
anyhoo. never noticed this for a while so I havebecome accustomed to it or it no longer happens...will check tommorow.. It is better to have and not need it then need and not have it.
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| 26th Jul 2013 10:53 am |
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Niblets
Member Since: 02 Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
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Hi, thanks I'd be interested to hear how you get on. Interesting thought on the gearbox oil temp - I'll see if the dealer has checked the senors although I expect they have. It's a very odd fault, it'll hold 3rd for as long as the car is running until you switch it off. Turn it back on after a few seconds or a couple of hours and that's it - wont hold 3rd even if you wanted it to. Only seems to be 3rd that it holds - all other gears change as normal. And the brief loading of the engine to initiate the normal change is odd. Not to do with raising the revs as simply accelerating swiftly up through the gears doesn't prevent it holding the gear when reverting back to slow urban driving.
Wondering if it could be torque convertor related as the actuate gearbox seems smooth and quiet?
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| 27th Jul 2013 8:40 pm |
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petersw
Member Since: 17 Nov 2012
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1135
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The gearbox is designed to hold on to gears longer whilst cold to speed up the warming of engine, perhaps something is wrong with this system ?
Edit Info here ....
The 8HP70 is packed with energy saving features. The hydraulic actuating system is more efficient too, the hydraulic pump drawing less energy from the engine. The torque converter is calibrated to lock-up at lower speeds and operating temperature, reducing fuel consumption and once again taking advantage of the 3.0-litre diesel engine's immense low-end torque. Transmission Idle Control seamlessly and transparently selects neutral when the car is stationary and the engine idling in drive, reducing drag on the engine and saving fuel. The 8HP70 has brains too. In hot conditions it selects a lower gear to run the engine and air conditioning pumps faster to cool down the cabin quickly. In cold conditions it runs the engine faster to reduce warm-up time and emissions.
http://newsroom.jaguarlandrover.com/en-in/...it_060711/
Last edited by petersw on 28th Jul 2013 8:27 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 28th Jul 2013 7:53 am |
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amazing
Member Since: 05 Mar 2011
Location: chengdu
Posts: 1542
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took extra notice today and no delay...maybe a winter thing as it 35 degrees today so everything is hot...
even drove extra smooth to avoid any blip effect..
good luck resolving it. but temp seems possible. It is better to have and not need it then need and not have it.
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| 28th Jul 2013 8:02 am |
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Niblets
Member Since: 02 Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
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Ok, a rather late update here. Car spend weeks at the local dealers with visits from LR technical who took numerous data logs of the car whist holding the gear and with it changing correctly. Without going into the detail the final word from LR technical was that the car would always change gear as expected at 30 mph (instrument speed) under normal driving conditions.
Well, this isn't the case unfortunately and the car still holds 3rd gear unless.....after starting the car you you give the throttle a quick blip before selecting D and setting. If you do this the car changes at the expected 30mph without fail.
Anyone any ideas why this is the case? throttle position reading perhaps?
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| 8th Jul 2014 9:55 am |
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amazing
Member Since: 05 Mar 2011
Location: chengdu
Posts: 1542
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my maserati has a similar quirk (8speed but still zf) my landrover has stopped its 3rd gear holding but its summer now and underground parking is at a steady 25 degrees (outside 32)so it warms up fast.On the Maz the gearbox holds but if you stop and restart it doesn't.(if I stop at corner shop it restarts with lower tickover and normal changes.)
deffo sounds like a cold temp issue to get things warmed up quicker.(maybe cat temp sensors trigger this? ) It is better to have and not need it then need and not have it.
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| 8th Jul 2014 10:14 am |
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Niblets
Member Since: 02 Sep 2012
Location: London
Posts: 10
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Interesting, I too have the stop and restart after a short distance clears any gear holding (but no change in idle speed for me), which would look to point towards a warm up period.
However, I can't see that just dabbing the throttle straight after starting the car can register a genuine temperature change in the system. I've been experimenting with when and how swiftly the throttle dab has to be. And found that even quickly dabbing the throttle during the brief cranking stage of startup (probably a couple of turns before the engine fires up) will prevent any gear holding.
It's all very frustrating as most of my journey is spent in 30 mph zones. I now go through this routine every time I start the car but really don't think this is the norm.
I'm pretty sure that all things being equal the car should change at 29/30 mph.
Would be handy if a couple of others with a 6 speed D4 could pull of nice and gently in the morning and bring the car up the 30 mph and see if it changes up to 4th or holds the gear until around 35 mph.
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| 16th Jul 2014 11:13 pm |
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nigel207
Member Since: 26 Mar 2009
Location: Nottinghamshire
Posts: 1344
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Niblets,
I have a MY2010. It does indeed hold on to 3rd gear for quite some time until it warms up. One of the routes from here could be a good couple of miles downhill, and unless I use Command Shift it will remain in 3rd for the duration as it's not getting warm. Once warm though, it will change up through the gears much quicker.
It's always done it, and I've just accepted it to be the way it should be as it's never given any problems. As I say, you could force the issue by changing up manually?
Nigel.
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| 17th Jul 2014 9:42 am |
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