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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13556
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Govt's policy would cost UK car makers billions in emission |
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Please note, this isn't an attempt to resurrect the Brexit thread, it's to consider the Govt's policy on cars and their pollution.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industr...sion-fines
[my bold to highlight the issue]
Quote:A no-deal Brexit could cost the UK automotive industry at least £3 billion in CO2-related fines, Autocar has learned.
The costs represent the fines that would be racked up by the 40-plus manufacturers operating in the UK and who would fall foul of the 95g/km fleet average CO2 figure, which the government has pledged to implement unilaterally if the UK goes-it-alone in October.
A spokesman for the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT) said: “The European CO2 Directive allows manufacturers flexibility to balance their emissions performance across all relevant European markets. A no deal Brexit would, however, remove this flexibility, which may make reduction targets far harder for some manufacturers, given the UK model mix may differ from a European average.
“If this meant additional fines were to be levied on UK companies, the effects could be hugely damaging, reducing consumer choice, undermining competitiveness and restricting future R&D spend. This is yet more evidence of the severe consequences for the British automotive industry from a disorderly Brexit - no deal must be ruled out immediately.” Although the concept of the UK adopting the 95g/km CO2 average has been well-flagged – it was a key element in government No Deal Brexit planning documents – the impact on individual car-makers and the industry as a whole is only just starting to emerge.
The significant issue is that the UK fleet average figure would be based purely on UK sales, making it less likely for sales of heavier cars with larger engines, especially the growing mix of SUVs models, to be balanced out by cheaper, lower polluting city cars and superminis.
One mass-market manufacturer that Autocar spoke to has carried out an internal audit of its annual new car sales and calculated its fleet mix of petrol, diesel, hybrid and electrified models would rack up around £100m in fines.
By basing the requirement on UK sales alone, some car manufacturers are really going to struggle if their UK market favours the "dirty models" compared to other markets that previously balanced out the overall result.
This feels like the first step in achieving the Govt's policy of no internal combustion engines by a week next Tuesday. Of course, an increase in costs to the manufacturers will, inevitably, lead to an increase in cost to the customer. So the Govt's policy is likely to just result in more expensive cars in the UK. Great. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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1st Jul 2019 7:05 pm |
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Paul J.
Member Since: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Leafy Cheshire
Posts: 7629
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So what is your solution to global warming? An ex-Disco3 / FFRR owner ......
..... now on the JLR electric highway.
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1st Jul 2019 8:01 pm |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14429
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Walking, cycling and population control D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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1st Jul 2019 8:05 pm |
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LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23832
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UK car production has declined for the 12th consecutive month. May production figures were down 15.5% compared to May 2018.
Worrying times, but Jaguar Land Rover has announced significant EV Investment for the Castle Bromwich factory. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)
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1st Jul 2019 9:05 pm |
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RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13556
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Paul J. wrote:So what is your solution to global warming?
Getting rid of dino-burning cars to replace them with EVs using electricity from dino-fuelled power stations isn't it, that's for sure.
Hammering the car manufacturer and buyer, before putting in place the systems to allow them to improve, isn't helping anyone other than the Exchequer.
First we need the grid to be improved to enable lots of juicy amps to flow where they will be needed to support EVs, then we need to replace our dino-fuelled generation systems with renewables (although we have to make sure we don't use too much concrete, as that industry is a jolly good producer of CO2 - tricky to make nuclear or tidal without lots of concrete).
Then we need to limit transport of stuff around the place in ships and planes. Lots of nasty CO2 from them.
We probably also need to limit meat production. It has been claimed (https://timeforchange.org/eat-less-meat-co2-emission-of-food) that producing 1kg of beef also produces 13kg of CO2 - or about 56km/35m of driving in my RRS SDV6. So I can have a steak or I can drive to town and back for the same environmental detriment.
And lastly, or perhaps firstly would be better, we need to limit the world's human population.
So, in summary, we need to have fewer people, who all eat locally produced mostly vegetarian/vegan diets, limit their personal transport, and live in zero carbon homes. Oh, and we need to persuade 7 billion others (well, actually probably only 3 billion (China, India, the US and the EU as they, particularly the first three, are the big CO2 producers) to do the same thing.
Or we could just implement a system that makes cars expensive but makes a few quid to allow tax breaks for those who don't need them. Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
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1st Jul 2019 10:55 pm |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10442
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Paul J. wrote:So what is your solution to global warming?
Reintroduce the Plague or Black Death In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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1st Jul 2019 11:11 pm |
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Moo
D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14429
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Reverend Malthus theory: Population will be controlled by war, pestilence, disease and natural disasters. Very perceptive for a chap nearly 200 years ago. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
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2nd Jul 2019 1:04 am |
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NJS5
Member Since: 16 Jul 2018
Location: Catherington
Posts: 24
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I entirely agree with Moo & AndrewS.
A major problem is over population. No politician will address this issue.
I would suggest that child allowance should be modified with an allowance for the first child only. That allowance should be "per person", one child allowance for ache male parent, one for each female - thus a conventional couple have two allowances between them.
The 3rd & subsequent child should be taxed.
I could go on - but you get the idea.
NJSS
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2nd Jul 2019 6:26 am |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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You are aware that Autoexpress Autocar Mags are the redtops of the automotive industry
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2nd Jul 2019 6:31 am |
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Paul J.
Member Since: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Leafy Cheshire
Posts: 7629
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…… and that the SMMT are hardly neutral observers …… An ex-Disco3 / FFRR owner ......
..... now on the JLR electric highway.
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2nd Jul 2019 7:36 am |
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Paul J.
Member Since: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Leafy Cheshire
Posts: 7629
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RRSTDV8 wrote:Paul J. wrote:So what is your solution to global warming?
Getting rid of dino-burning cars to replace them with EVs using electricity from dino-fuelled power stations isn't it, that's for sure.
We are becoming less reliant on dino-fuelled power stations: http://gridwatch.co.uk/
An ex-Disco3 / FFRR owner ......
..... now on the JLR electric highway.
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2nd Jul 2019 7:38 am |
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Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
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What a great site; I’m keeping a link to that 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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2nd Jul 2019 7:55 am |
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highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5103
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Paul J. wrote:We are becoming less reliant on dino-fuelled power stations: http://gridwatch.co.uk/
Presumably that's not accounting for Drax and the other former coal power stations getting 97% of their wood pellets from abroad (mostly N.America)...assuming they aren't using electric trucks, trains and ships to get the 10 million tonnes or so of it over here each year?
The problem with biomass is that it is considered by the UK/EU as a renewable resource because it sequesters as much CO2 in growing as is released in burning, whereas the CO2 released in burning it is likely only around a fifth or less of the total CO2 involved in the process. Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
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2nd Jul 2019 10:18 am |
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Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6910
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In my eyes it’s a world problem, not each country on their own. Surely it would be best for all countries to pitch in and help eliminate the coal burning power stations of Eastern Europe and the third world, this is technology that’s available now and would very quickly reduce emissions of the whole world, whilst the next generation technology is worked on. It’s no use us saying “we are carbon neutral” when the rest still kick it out. It’s also not about being ca4bon neutral, that only keeps us where we are, we need to be reducing the co2 to really help. Joined the BMWX5 45e group
1994 Defender 90
2015 RRS Corris Grey/Black roof
2016 D4 Graphite Santorini Black
2012 D4 XS Orkney Grey
2005 D3 S Maya Gold
Convoy for Heroes 2011
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2nd Jul 2019 10:29 am |
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highlands
Member Since: 10 Jan 2010
Location: NW Highlands
Posts: 5103
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IIRC the UK coal power stations were offered 10.5p per kWh to generate leccy from American wood pellets rather than about a third of that using UK coal.
I'm not sure who would pay that for moving to biomass in poorer markets, nor what the knock-on effect would be on their coal communities, nor indeed how much could be generated from 'sustainable' forestry operations. Black 05 TDV6 HSE Auto
Grey 05 TDV6 HSE Auto (Gone)
54 TDV6 SE Man (killed by me )
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2nd Jul 2019 11:55 am |
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