Member Since: 03 Jan 2006
Location: Romiley
Posts: 13710
Good luck in whatever you do with this next.
Just reading teh thread though is giving me the heeby jeebies on what 'could' have happened to my 2008MY before I flogged it 5 years ago at 68000 miles / 8 years old. It is 'such' a shame that such an awesome car has this achilles heel, or I would probably still been running mine now.Steve N | 21MY Defender | 08MY Discovery 3 (history) | 06MY Discovery 3 (ancient history)
2nd Aug 2020 12:53 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4626
wallworkf1 wrote:
The offending bearing
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Click image to enlarge
Crank
Cap
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I've not taken the crank out yet. Just need to think about my options!
More beer required...
Well you might as well pull it out now you've gone this far. (The crank I mean )
There was some pretty high temps there judging by the colour and condition of the bearings.
So the question is how much damage is left in the bearing seat?
The cap will give you a good idea! yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
2nd Aug 2020 1:03 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
It’s amazing how a beer and some curry can spur you on! Good on you for attempting this, best of luck.
It’s good to see what actually goes wrong inside the engine, as many just chuck it away and fit another without looking.
Good luck.
2nd Aug 2020 7:53 am
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 760
Bad luck mate, i'm not a fan of the bearings without tabs, purely for the damage they do to the block when they spin, not so bad on a big end, it is just a conrod then.
You may be able to have the block line bored and the crank ground depending on how bad the damage is, but as already been suggested may be cheaper to get a good used one somewhere.
I switched to 10w40 eng oil on mine about 50k miles ago, no idea if it will help or not as i dont see many others with the same mindset.
2nd Aug 2020 4:00 pm
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2459
I am surei read somewhere that the later 3.0 engines have tabs on the bearings and they can be retro fitted to the 2.7 with a little help from a dremmel
2nd Aug 2020 5:12 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Cheers all for the replys! Its been a busy weekend of drinking and contemplating
Even though it's almost worst case scenario, I'm actually quite happy that I now know what the problem was - which opens up the options, and sets the limitations for fixing it.
Looks like there are a few options here.
1. Convert car to electric - OK that's probably not going to happen would cost ££££££- but would be epic! (and a steep learning curve for me!)
2. Source a used Jag engine (that hasn't spun a main bearing!) - and either use as is - or inspect and recondition the bottom end a little - and transplant as appropriate (injectors, turbo etc... new timing kit, oil pump)
3. Source a used engine or bottom end where maybe the heads are scrap (timing belt failures?)
4. Source a good used bare block (again needs to be one where it hasn't spun a main!) and transplant over - use my crank - but reconditioned
5. Get my block line bored - though I really don't know how/if/what this would mean in terms of bearings, as they would need to be oversize for the crank and oversize for the block - I'm not sure if oversize bearings are only designed for the one direction i.e. towards the crank rather than the block or if it even matters?
I'm sure there are probably more options than that, and combinations of the above. I like the idea of getting a good bare block and starting from there - anyone got one?
Can I use a block that's had a snapped crank? I don't know? if it caused a bearing to spin - no?
I spoke to a local engine machine shop earlier - they wouldn't be able to line bore my block (that's just their limitation), but would be able to do the main journals on the crank, they can't do the big end journals (which I don't need doing anyway) as they are too small for their machines - so potentially I can use my crank if I need to with oversized main bearings, and standard big ends. They did advise me to be very careful about buying a reconditioned block for this engine, as people aren't always doing them correctly! (i.e. some spray the block to make it look nice and sell it on with no warranty! or rebuild from ones with spun mains - like mine - but without sorting the actual block out)
I'm not really on a budget as such, but I don't really want to be spending thousands if I don't need to.
Timescale wise - not in a rush, but It would be nice if I could sort it out in the next month or so, and I can drive it again! I've got used to this type of car now, driving the Mrs' Focus when need to isn't doing it for me!
On a side note - I'm actually glad I bought the cheap timing locking kit, as it meant I could engineer it tight enough to not need a bolt in it! which wouldn't have been practical as i'd already removed the ladder/sump extension! (yes I probably should have undone it earlier, but meh..)
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Had a little tidy up...
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3rd Aug 2020 12:16 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Is it wrong that I miss this now?
Click image to enlarge
3rd Aug 2020 12:29 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4626
Well the most common remedy and perhaps easiest route might be to source a good/running Jag engine, and rebuild the bottom end for peace of mind. I think Motolab was the last one on here to publish his efforts in this regard.
You can't use a block from a broken crank as this will be warped and is nothing more than scrap.
I very much like the EV route and briefly looked at this only a few weeks ago when I had the body off. There are challenges to overcome here, and it's not just the cost which I roughly calculated as £enormous.
Getting all the relevant control modules to talk to each other I suspect would be a bit tricky, so clever editing and re-programming would be required. Then there's the power steering, electric perhaps? As well as brakes and other stuff to sort out.
I understand there's a company in Wales which has done defenders and the like, but the D3 is a different animal in both terms of weight and complexity.
In time the cost of an EV conversion will perhaps come down to an acceptable level. Hopefully in time before all the TDV6 D3's have gone to the scrapyard yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Aug 2020 12:59 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Quote:
I very much like the EV route and briefly looked at this only a few weeks ago when I had the body off. There are challenges to overcome here, and it's not just the cost which I roughly calculated as £enormous.
Getting all the relevant control modules to talk to each other I suspect would be a bit tricky, so clever editing and re-programming would be required. Then there's the power steering, electric perhaps? As well as brakes and other stuff to sort out.
I understand there's a company in Wales which has done defenders and the like, but the D3 is a different animal in both terms of weight and complexity.
Yea, there is a lot to think about there - I do love the idea though. And I think with a bit more understanding probably isn't that scary - and the principles are pretty simple, anything that used to run of the engine - now needs to run from something else - electric vacuum pumps etc... but like you say hooking it all together (modules etc...) would be a huge job, with a massive amount of understanding on how each module works/communicates - though not impossible. That being said you'd probably want two motors instead of one for the weight which changes the entire drive train/concept - but that is pure speculation on my part - so i'm not even going to think about it any further!
As for electric though - I think that's a future kit car project instead.
I do like Disco_Mikey TDV8 project - that is fantastic! - but probably a bit much for me to take on at the moment! and probably had some similar challenges with modules etc...2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
3rd Aug 2020 1:20 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4626
If you can get your hands on a TDV8 and the modules and loom from a crashed motor that would be worth going for. I seem to remember DM saying he didn't have any major issues with the elecs/comms.
I'm sure he could offer much in the way of help if you are tempted to proceed.
The bigger challenge might be getting hold of the donor!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Aug 2020 1:31 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
aja4x4 wrote:
I am surei read somewhere that the later 3.0 engines have tabs on the bearings and they can be retro fitted to the 2.7 with a little help from a dremmel
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
PROFSR G wrote:
If you can get your hands on a TDV8 and the modules and loom from a crashed motor that would be worth going for. I seem to remember DM saying he didn't have any major issues with the elecs/comms.
I'm sure he could offer much in the way of help if you are tempted to proceed.
The bigger challenge might be getting hold of the donor!
It does sound fantastic! (both senses of the word) I did read through a lot of that thread- its a good read! But it may take me so long that I have to buy another car in the meantime! And remember i'm doing mine on the drive!! 2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
3rd Aug 2020 1:39 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Motolab wrote:
I had the same issue..
Because i did remove the engine with body off, and had to hire lift time, i bought a JAG engine and converted it.. (i have a topic about what i did exactly)
The engine with damage is in my workshop for a rebuild... next winter...
I found that there are rather a lot Of engines around, with broken belts... in most cases the crankshafts and crankcases are still ok...
I bought such an engine (small- block incl LR sump) for 250 quid..
Since The main bearings are mounted under certain tension, to keep them in place ( do not spin) you need another crankcase anyway.. since the tension in yours due to the spin damage is gone forever...
So if you can find such a small block cheap... it is just new bearings, seals, gaskets and time... if time is your own... it can be a rather inexpensive rebuild..
Thanks, I think it may well be one of those two options I'll go with. A small/short block only would be great, just need to find one.
Your thread is also a great read for anyone else who finds themselves here in the future! So here is a link https://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/tdv6-jaguar...64-75.html2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
3rd Aug 2020 2:14 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4626
Quote:
wallworkf1.
It does sound fantastic! (both senses of the word) I did read through a lot of that thread- its a good read! But it may take me so long that I have to buy another car in the meantime! And remember i'm doing mine on the drive!!
Time for lots more beer and curry so yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
3rd Aug 2020 2:19 pm
wallworkf1
Member Since: 01 Jul 2020
Location: South Staffs
Posts: 69
Absolutely! 2008 Disco 3 HSE TDV6 - Gone
2001 Disco 2 V8 - Gone
Other non-LR cars and motorbikes.
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