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deanr_777
Member Since: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 8
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Can someone explain to me the relationship between high sulphur diesel and and the rest of the world spec Disco 3.
My understanding is that the UK spec car would find it dificult to run on anything but low sulphur diesal and that the rest of the rest of the world spec can run on both without any problems.
Is this true and if so what needs to be done to run a UK spec car through say Africa where diesal quality cannot be guaranteed?
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 2nd Mar 2010 7:48 pm |
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joyceslaw
Member Since: 01 Mar 2009
Location: Achill Island
Posts: 221
  
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From memory sulphur was added as a lubricant, the same as lead for petrol. It was got rid of due to its contribution to acid rain....
... I see no problem why diesel + sulphur would cause any problems, however if it does and they find out (by being made aware of this thread) then their get out would be that you were not using EN 590 diesel - the European Standard for diesel.
My opinion of course.
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| 4th Mar 2010 1:18 am |
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DingMark
Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Perth Oz or Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 388
  
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As a rather older than I want to be ex-refiner, it's not so much as Sulphur was added to diesel as during the refining process, all the Sulphur in crude oils tends to concentrate in the diesel and heavy heating oil spec. In the past 7 years or so, the technology has made a quantum leap (but an extremely expensive leap, cost is like US$0.05/litre, depending on the refinery and it's normal crude oil feed composition). It's now possible to remove the Sulphur concentration to around 10 ppm. As little as 5 yrs ago, the US spec was by memory around 5,000 ppm Sulphur. Like Lead in petrol, Sulphur in diesel will cause any catalyst (like a catalytic converter in the urea injection into diesel systems) to be contaminated and no doubt wouldn't help any DPM (diesel particulate matter) filtering system. With less Sulphur content, diesel fuel lubricity has decreased and this has to be accommodated in the injector, and seal design.
I'm not an engine or seal expert, nor a metallurgist so can't comment on what problems may occur by using high Sulphur diesel. I do recall that in my late D3's handbook, it did mention what to do if using high Sulphur diesel fuels. I do know that when combusted, the Sulphur compounds (and it's literally hundreds of different compounds, not all of which have been identified yet, in diesel fuels) oxidise to SO2, which when mixed with the water (from burning diesel fuel) forms sulphuric acid. This causes exhausts to corrode and is what turned the oil of old diesel engines of 10 yrs ago into sludge (the acid degrades the oil components and also corrodes the engine steel which helps glug the oil). I would certainly suggest that if burning high Sulphur diesel that the engine oil be changed every 3000-5000 kms, but don't know what else to worry about. Jim Dowell - D4 HSE TDi, 12,000 hydraulic winch & hidden winch mount, MTRs, TyreDog, Traxide 2 x aux battery system, fixed air compressor, Dolium roof rack, MitchHitch.
RIP 2005 D3 HSE V8 5 seater gold (stolen and torched)
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| 4th Mar 2010 3:22 am |
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TSR2
Member Since: 22 Jul 2008
Location: North Lincolnshire
Posts: 1104
 
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Dingmark...Old refiner..me too. 
In europe the reduction was part of the cleaner air policy. As you say the technology was pushed by this legislation at no little cost to the industry and the level of sulphur in fuels is extremely low compared to previous levels.
I don't remember the sulphur having any damaging properties for the engines or the engine maufacturers having any any part in these changes just a cleaner less polluting fuel. But you rightly identified the need for possibly more frequent servicing:thumbsup:
By the way the "High sulphur diesel" remark is relative as that willl just be our previous standard level of sulphur before the changes. Regards, Trev.
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In the wilds of North Lincs or the middle of the North Sea.
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| 4th Mar 2010 7:39 am |
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Sulphur Diesel
Member Since: 04 Mar 2010
Location: At the pump
Posts: 2
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Hi deanr_777!
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| 4th Mar 2010 1:02 pm |
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wvlenthe
Member Since: 07 Jan 2009
Location: Arnhem
Posts: 1967
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TSR2 wrote:In europe the reduction was part of the cleaner air policy.
In the Netherlands, when sulphur levels were going down, this low-sulphur fuel was only available for HGV's at first and later on became available for other vehicles. I don't know why, can't have anything to do with damage to the engine because cars from way before this switch are still driving around.
regards,
Wiljo D3 V8 HSE Auto in Zermatt silver - driveway version gone but not forgotten, only the living room cupboard version remains
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| 4th Mar 2010 7:46 pm |
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deanr_777
Member Since: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 8
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Thanks for the answers.... Fascinating stuff, keep it coming
I understood, maybe a wives tale mind,  that the D3 "rest of the world spec" had a diferent fuel filtering system to the UK spec car to allow for lower quality diesal to be used.
Anyone know anything about this?
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| 4th Mar 2010 8:00 pm |
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DingMark
Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Perth Oz or Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 388
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Australia has diesel specification of 10 ppm Sulphur, which I think is the Euro spec. Our engines have to be "Euro 4" here (ie, we need the particulate filter). In Western Australia, nearly all of our diesel comes from Singapore (and is mostly consumed at mines sites exporting stuff to China), so the Singapore refineries and storage tanks are 10 ppm. That means that a lot of SE Asia is on 10ppm or thereabouts as well. Some areas in Africa and the Middle East use stinky high Sulphur diesel. Jim Dowell - D4 HSE TDi, 12,000 hydraulic winch & hidden winch mount, MTRs, TyreDog, Traxide 2 x aux battery system, fixed air compressor, Dolium roof rack, MitchHitch.
RIP 2005 D3 HSE V8 5 seater gold (stolen and torched)
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| 5th Mar 2010 5:41 am |
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deanr_777
Member Since: 13 Jan 2010
Location: Doncaster
Posts: 8
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Hi Sulphur Diesel.......Very Good 
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| 8th Mar 2010 1:07 pm |
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