astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8044
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LR cannot build a 'basic stripped out' version of what you want at the performance level you expect/demand for £20k and that is nothing to do with retail prices Vs "what it costs us", simple as, just getting a rolling chassis 'like a current one' exceeds that cost (on air or traditional springs)
To make a 'Jimny' is not the market JLR are in and cannot afford to be it to be honest, the 'business costs' do not lend themselves to making cheap cars.
And selling all those football mum or rich Chinese blingtastic motors is what makes JLR still be here still today - if it hadn't shifted 'up' it would likely not have survived past about 2011 as an entity, and Tata were pretty happy since 2009 when 80% of Tata overall profitability for a number of years can be traced to one manufacturing hall at Solihull.....
They are not struggling (just) because of that strategy, their current revenue streams show you where the money is made still even today, not a simplistic case of stop that and have a supermarket pile 'em high, sell 'em cheap business model
Last edited by astonbuilder on 11th Jul 2019 11:50 am. Edited 1 time in total
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11th Jul 2019 11:50 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930
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vanpeebles wrote:You would like to think they would be in the business of making money by selling cars. Especially 4x4 ones
Yes but they have never made a Jimny sized vehicle and their future strategy suggests they don't intend to either. As good as the Jimny looks, and I'm sure it is great fun, it apparently has terrible road manners and scored a 3 ncap. You pays your monies 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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11th Jul 2019 11:50 am |
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vanpeebles
Member Since: 20 Mar 2018
Location: North East
Posts: 150
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The original 3 door Freelander can't be that far off in size.
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11th Jul 2019 11:51 am |
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Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
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LR remodelled themselves in the 80s to survive when the Japanese took all their business and I guess that is what they are doing now, but racing to the bottom to compete with a market they have never been in isn't the way. Once the Defender is out they should have a vehicle for most needs, if they then get the dealership network up to scratch in size and service I'm sure they will prosper, its not like any other car manufacturer is doing that much better. DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
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11th Jul 2019 12:01 pm |
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sycove
Member Since: 25 Mar 2015
Location: Burntisland
Posts: 396
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They need a Freelander replacement, priced from £20k-£30k, in my opinion all current models are £10k overpriced.
The model range is too congested in the £40k - £60k bracket
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11th Jul 2019 12:14 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930
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vanpeebles wrote:The original 3 door Freelander can't be that far off in size.
FL1 3dr was 1000mm longer and 160mm wider 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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11th Jul 2019 12:18 pm |
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astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8044
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the cheapest Dacia Duster diesel 4x4 is £19,295. Other than its a car with an engine has no comparison like-for-like with a LR product.
LR are not going to make this type of car, go buy a Dacia (itself a budget brand off-shoot.......)
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11th Jul 2019 12:22 pm |
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sycove
Member Since: 25 Mar 2015
Location: Burntisland
Posts: 396
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The Dacia duster 2 wheel drive is around £10k, compared to the discovery sport base model at £32k
Are you saying there is 22k more value in the sport? Realistically you are closer to £40k for anything remotely quality or technical in the DS
I think if they were to price the base mode DS at around £25k it would fill a void in the range
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11th Jul 2019 12:29 pm |
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astonbuilder
Member Since: 29 Sep 2006
Location: MIDLANDS
Posts: 8044
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The £10k Duster and a base DS are just not comparable at all
If you price anything cheaper you can argue you'd buy one
This is now becoming a pointless conversation - I have given you facts from a point of knowledge so go buy a Dacia and then you can be very happy and bank the cash, it is your choice after all.
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11th Jul 2019 12:36 pm |
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vanpeebles
Member Since: 20 Mar 2018
Location: North East
Posts: 150
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Sadly the future looks far more rosier for Dacia than it does for LR. Just a shame there are no easily affordable cars by British makes.
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11th Jul 2019 12:58 pm |
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sycove
Member Since: 25 Mar 2015
Location: Burntisland
Posts: 396
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astonbuilder wrote:The £10k Duster and a base DS are just not comparable at all
If you price anything cheaper you can argue you'd buy one
This is now becoming a pointless conversation - I have given you facts from a point of knowledge so go buy a Dacia and then you can be very happy and bank the cash, it is your choice after all.
I'm not trying to compare Dacia and LR, but it was stated that LR couldn't produce a vehicle at the £20k range. I think they can and I think they should, range is far too congested around the 40-60k band.
with their existing models and specifications there is certainly a reason to expand into a more budget market.
My opinion is that LR need a Freelander replacement, the DS should have been it but its been marketed too high
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11th Jul 2019 2:03 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50930
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If they had line capacity maybe, but they don't ...think of it this way ...one FFRR assembly, sale & profit = the equivalent of sending 10 Jimnys down a line.
Sounds like hard work to me ....leave it to Suzuki 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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11th Jul 2019 2:35 pm |
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Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438
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vanpeebles wrote:Sadly the future looks far more rosier for Dacia than it does for LR. Just a shame there are no easily affordable cars by British makes.
Just how would you compete directly with a manufacturer that uses cast off Renault components, in a cheap to build car (go and have a closer look at one) in Eastern Europe, with an Eastern European cost base?
Even "back in the day" it wasn't possible to build something as crude as a Ford Escort in the UK and still be able to compete on price with a Lada saloon. 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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11th Jul 2019 2:50 pm |
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sycove
Member Since: 25 Mar 2015
Location: Burntisland
Posts: 396
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Good point, I look forward to seeing a significant price drop in the D5 now that production has moved to an Eastern European country
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11th Jul 2019 2:55 pm |
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kajtzu
Member Since: 10 Aug 2017
Location: Helsinki
Posts: 6538
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Disco_Mikey wrote:Every model down except L405/L494
Said it before, the cheaper end of the market is being squeezed, while the rich are not affected
Bring back a sub £20k Freelander-sized model
There is very little profit to be made in the low end except at insane production volumes that JLR cannot reach. Companies like Ford have average profit margin (before taxes, etc.) of ~5% - they’re making 1k on a 20k vehicle. Their best seller, the F-150 truck, they make 10k-13k/vehicle.
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11th Jul 2019 4:03 pm |
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