Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
6.00
8th Oct 2016 6:02 pm
Edfors
Member Since: 18 Aug 2009
Location: Uppsala
Posts: 65
The old Defender was really well past its best due date, so fully understandable it's gone. The commercial market for Defender on the world scene was really gone already in the 80's when farmers, electrical, gas and other utility companies switched over for the Japanese pick-up trucks, and if you wanted some more soul you bought a US pick-up. But on the home market Defender managed to keep a portion of this, mostly due to entusiasts for the domestic brand.
Commercial versions of Discovery must be a very small market, can't think of anyone except in the UK or possibly Ireland and possibly some other small country where LR is seen as a utility vehicle. Land Rover will surely earn more of each 7-seater HSE sold, so naturally they want to sell these before they start produce commercials on a new model.
I also recognise this critisism to LR as what we had years ago about Volvo when they stopped the local commercial offerings, but that's now many years ago and I guess everyone now buy something different and more fit for purpose. Personally my father changed back in 1981 from a 109" to a Iveco Daily, and the Ivecos or Mercedes' Sprinters that followed have all the abilities or more with better cargo space, four wheel drive and difflock.
Don't get me wrong, I would love a commercial Discovery or a Defender but for most people Discovery are a Range Rover already. Even when I'm seen in my old Discovery 2, 8 out of 10 will call it a Range Rover! And the Defender sold over here was really just a life style vehicle for the city folks who wanted to show something they wasn't.
Look forward in anticipation of the new Defender, which in my dreams are a car that can compete with my old Ford F-350 pickup, it seated 6 in comfort with all electric gizmos in a 3+3 seating and easily loaded 1,5 tonne on the load bed and that with all 6 occupants up front! Tow capacity of 4 tonnes! OK, I may satisfy with GVW of 3.5 tonne on the vehicle and same for the trailer. Understand if they can't compete with the 7.3 litre V8 turbo diesel I had, but a SDV8 is not far away in torque.
8th Oct 2016 6:24 pm
Fitzy73
Member Since: 09 Feb 2014
Location: Truro
Posts: 2407
Great video and confirms my feelings that with the loss of the Defender and now the Discovery, there are no longer any new Land Rover vehicles I would like to buy.
Whilst I should probably fall into Land Rovers target market for the Discovery Sport Plus Size, in my opinion it is awful and lacking in any Land Rover history/heritage.Andy
Thanks Steve didn't think you came on here much now your a Volvo man
I lurk!! '16 Volvo XC90 R Design Bursting Blue (Vera)
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8th Oct 2016 8:13 pm
APL
Member Since: 14 Sep 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 1130
I am struggling to come to terms with the fact that Land Rover have stopped producing any VAT reclaimable vehicle whatsoever.....
Certainly here in Ireland we are all very annoyed at the situation. At next weeks big launch event here I hope we will all make our views firmly known to the local distributor!2016 Discovery 4 Commercial
2019 Discovery 5 HSE
8th Oct 2016 8:35 pm
PDC
Member Since: 20 Jul 2016
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 174
I totally agree with him and think that JLR have shot them selves in the foot. All they have in their stables now are a fleet of cars that look more at home in the city than the country side. How many X5, XC90 or RRS for that matter do you see ploughing across fields, there has got to be still a large enough market for the utilitarian looks of the D4 and the Defender. There is of course the over sea's market where many people's daily commute won't be on tarmac, I guess they will be now loosing out to the Japanese pickup market that is getting stronger by the year......... 2010 RR 5.0 Autobiography
2020 F-Pace SVR
2018 RRSport
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2011 Disco 3.0
2008 RRS HST V8
8th Oct 2016 9:22 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
And the fields are full of D4s just as many D4s are parked outside the school gates or in Waitrose car park.
The Defender died a long time ago, farmers and the like were able to get a more comfortable vehicle better equipped at a fraction of the cost and more importantly reliable from the Japanese manufacturers.
LR need money to develop the new Defender so they need vehicles that will sell and sell well, the next Defender needs to sell 70,000 units a year to make it financially viable. There is no room for two utilitarian models, simply not a big enough market. With the D5 going soft then this is the best way of making sure the next Defender is a sales success.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
8th Oct 2016 10:57 pm
lynalldiscovery
Member Since: 22 Dec 2009
Location: Maidstone
Posts: 7274
Vid appears to have been deleted?
9th Oct 2016 2:06 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
You're right. It's not just the link, it's gone from YouTube as well. How disappointing.
I wonder what the story is there?2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
9th Oct 2016 6:23 am
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
J77 wrote:
There is no room for two utilitarian models, simply not a big enough market. With the D5 going soft then this is the best way of making sure the next Defender is a sales success.
That's strange logic ??? The market seems big enough for 5 overpriced luxury car park cruisers and LR now don't make a single utilitarian model. Not sure that's the best way of supporting the brand or making anything a success going forward. Remember, fashion moves on quickly... and then LR have got nothing!
2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
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9th Oct 2016 7:08 am
Mr.Tom
Member Since: 01 Jun 2014
Location: St Neots
Posts: 1641
I cannot see the link / video, it says it's private.
They need to make a damnsite more than 70k defender per year though. They sold more than that in its last 9 months.
A successful model needs to sell more like 40k to 80k per month.
SWMBO first response was "that looks like one of those jacked up pretend off road minis"Sill protection - LED internal lights - LED reverse lights - boot liner - Dog Guard - Rock sliders
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9th Oct 2016 7:14 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Post removed by RM - Post no longer relevant.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Last edited by Red Merle on 9th Oct 2016 8:29 am. Edited 1 time in total
9th Oct 2016 7:30 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Mr.Tom wrote:
A successful model needs to sell more like 40k to 80k per month.
SWMBO first response was "that looks like one of those jacked up pretend off road minis"
JLR's entire combined monthly production is only around 41,000 cars, so 40-80,000 for a single model might be a little excessive.
You can safely forget the image in AutoExpress - they just make stuff up. To illustrate the point, here's their "scoop" for the Discovery Sport (that is, the smaller of the two new Discovery Sports!):
2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
9th Oct 2016 7:40 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
I've been in communication with the man in the video and he's just given me the reason why the video was taken down. I've asked him if it's okay to publish the reasoning on here....
Update - He said "feel free":
Me: Will your excellent video on the lack of commercial options for the Land Rover be coming back?
Lord Muck: It will John, I took it down after receiving wonderful support and huge (for me) viewing figures but then started getting messages from various organisations who wanted to use it to promote their own agenda, e.g "Ban 4x4's from cities" etc.
That's not why I did it and I certainly didn't do it for someone else to use it for their own gain.
It's still lurking around.... it will reappear.
And thanks for the support.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
There is no room for two utilitarian models, simply not a big enough market. With the D5 going soft then this is the best way of making sure the next Defender is a sales success.
That's strange logic ??? The market seems big enough for 5 overpriced luxury car park cruisers and LR now don't make a single utilitarian model. Not sure that's the best way of supporting the brand or making anything a success going forward. Remember, fashion moves on quickly... and then LR have got nothing!
Indeed. There's more than enough room for two utilitarian models - one a full-on utility truck (Defender) and one a truly brilliant compromise (Discovery). A single vehicle would not replace the Disco and Defender - the Disco is too refined and expensive; the Defender is to inefficient and basic. There is plenty of demand for a vehicle that is tough and practical but refined enough for long distance trips, and a cheap and reliable, off-road utility vehicle to compete with the Jap-trucks.
The Defender needed updating big-time, but it's still too far off to merge it with the Disco in a single vehicle without considerable compromises. In fact, the Disco-Defender relationship is arguably what the original RR was to the LR and what a difference that was. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
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Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
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just as many D4s are parked outside the school gates or in Waitrose car park.
jacked up pretend off road minis"
Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
