DISCO4.COM - View topic - MY2014 - Land Rover letting us down?

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978

MarkOne wrote:
DG is put right in his place this morning.

I can understand the desire and sentiment for that

....however the drive and expectation for absolute perfection where man & machine are involved is fatally flawed and you will continue to be disappointed. Good luck however

21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

18th Dec 2013 8:54 am

Whistler

Member Since: 30 Oct 2013
Location: Hawarden North Wales
Posts: 47

The trouble with LR is they still have the British Leyland Mentality.

I have NEVER had any helpful or interested service from LR Dealers.

Frankly they disgust and ashame me.

This clearly has to change! Current drive Disco 2 "Humphrey" Dynachiped and off road prepped
Looking for a 2006+ D3

18th Dec 2013 10:07 am

sjmw

Member Since: 05 Jan 2012
Location: Bristol
Posts: 218

2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris Grey

Quote:

I can understand the desire and sentiment for that ....however the drive and expectation for absolute perfection where man & machine are involved is fatally flawed and you will continue to be disappointed. Good luck however

QED

18th Dec 2013 10:14 am

sacimiddx

Member Since: 09 Mar 2007
Location: hants
Posts: 2144

2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Baltic Blue

Whistler

there are indeed good and bad dealers - I have a theory that only 10 % of anything (people organisations products etc etc) is/are very good or exceptional

eg the Discovery3/4 is by nearly all measures accepted as an exceptional 'all round' 4x4 (ergo 90 % of 4x4's out there are not exceptional)

There are many on here that will vouch for very good dealers (and less so castigate bad dealers)

in my experience in over 7 years is that Yeovil are one of the best - pity that they are 100 miles away from me !)

others on the forum may be able to help with a dealer or independent nearer to you Illegitimi Non Carborundum

Last edited by sacimiddx on 18th Dec 2013 10:31 am. Edited 1 time in total

18th Dec 2013 10:26 am

Martin
Site Admin and Owner

Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18563

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Manual Buckingham Blue

Keep it civil please guys; don't let tensions spill over here. Thanks. 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!

18th Dec 2013 10:28 am

Martin
Site Admin and Owner

Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18563

FWIW in this case I feel it is, as ever, the variation in the dealers' knowledge rather than the information from LR which is the major problem. Yes, there are missing pieces of the UK market information (such as the web configurator) which may be worth taking up with Pete.

The information is out there (from the PDFs in the main 2014MY thread) just not being communicated to customers by dealers.

LR don't sell vehicles direct to the public. You do not buy a car from the manufacturer nor discuss potential purchases from them but from an independent dealer, and that's where the weak link is. Same with virtually all brands as far as I'm aware. 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!

18th Dec 2013 10:32 am

Whistler

Member Since: 30 Oct 2013
Location: Hawarden North Wales
Posts: 47

sacimiddx wrote:
Whistler

there are indeed good and bad dealers - I have a theory that only 10 % of anything (people organisations products etc etc) is/are very good or exceptional

eg the Discovery3/4 is by nearly all measures accepted as an exceptional 'all round' 4x4 (ergo 90 % of 4x4's out there are not exceptional)

There are many on here that will vouch for very good dealers (and less so castigate bad dealers)

in my experience in over 7 years is that Yeovil are one of the best - pity that they are 100 miles away from me !)

others on the forum may be able to help with a dealer or independent nearer to you

Well this may be the case, but, I have to go on personal experience.

LR Southend on Sea, Stafford, Manchester, Wolverhampton, Chester, Conwy all either rude, incompetant or useless.

Sorry, but none I have ever visited have been any good.

I sometimes wonder why people actually push on through the "Dealer Experience" in order to own one.

That said my folks are Volvo people and the Dealers are now dreadful, under the new owners.

But your buying the car not the dealers eh?

Current drive Disco 2 "Humphrey" Dynachiped and off road prepped
Looking for a 2006+ D3

18th Dec 2013 10:46 am

DALEK

Member Since: 28 Jul 2011
Location: Near Stockport
Posts: 633

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Maya Gold

Martin you are quite right, Mercedes were having the same issues with dealers so bought them out overnight so now you deal with a Mercedes owned dealership. Please god lets hope LR don't do that.

My spin on this is lets choose our dealers from their performance and if as a group we feel that a dealer does not deserve our business we can go elsewhere. A friend of mine is a dealer principal at one of the AUDI dealerships and his job pivots around sales each month. In other words he has to sell so many build slots a month and if he does not P45 and garden leave!!!

We are strong in numbers and between us have a knowledge that is greater than most dealers therefore lets not bicker between ourselves but be proactive, not revolutionary.

We are not buying some crappy import from some company who's name we cannot pronounce, this is a major purchase so we should be given all the assistance time and information we need.

Out of interest I went to the Manchester dealer and was shown full model spec for the MY14 down to it's rebadging, lights trim etc., although it seemed to be a LR internal document rather than a brochure it told me what I needed to know!!! I came up with one and only one answer......as follows

wait for the DISCO 5 HSE MY15!!!! D3 HSE ........................Gone!!!

Last edited by DALEK on 18th Dec 2013 11:52 am. Edited 2 times in total

18th Dec 2013 10:53 am

CRC@LandRover
Verified Account

Member Since: 12 Oct 2012
Location: Coventry
Posts: 415

Re: MY2014 - Land Rover letting us down?

Hi All,

I have had a bit of a nudge over here and wanted to just reply.

The franchised dealerships that we approve do have to meet certain criteria and standards, however as independent franchise businesses we do not have full control of day to day running and operation of them.

One thing we do, is monitor customer feedback on the dealerships through surveys and we do act upon the results.

I am aware that there have been concerns with the website regarding the 14MY although this is being addressed. Although the dealerships are provided with a great deal of support and information to allow them to answer any concerns and guide you through options and build details, they also have access to direct contacts should they require further information.

With all of this said, there will unfortunately be bad experiences and this is something that as a manufacturer we certainly wish to keep as minimal as possible.

If you do require assistance or have a specific concern, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.

Many thanks,
Pete

18th Dec 2013 11:21 am

MattC

Member Since: 18 Nov 2013
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 63

2014 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Causeway Grey

Here's my 2pence worth...

In recent years I've gone from a Porsche to a Mercedes and I now have a 2014 Discovery on order for delivery at the the end of January so, my cars are growing along with the size of my family.

I'd seen reports in the motor press about the face lifted Disco which was due to arrive in 2014 so I test drove a D4 back in September, made my decision and then waited until it was possible for me to place an order.

My local dealer (Guy Salmon Sheffield) were great at first however, their interest quickly vanished so I called around a couple of others in the vicinity. All of them were very helpful initially but, like Guy Salmon they also failed to return calls or provide any kind of service which you'd expect from a premium brand dealer. I run my own business and if we showed the levels of customer service that I've received from LR dealers, we'd be in the dole queue.

My experiences with Porsche & Mercedes (both Sheffield) have been exemplary and I honestly couldn't find a thing to complain about. Maybe I've been spoilt?

My Diso order eventually went to an independent finance company who sourced the car with a LR dealer on my behalf and in the process, I also saved over Â£200 per month on the finance, compared to the best LR quote I received.

18th Dec 2013 11:23 am

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978

Pelyma wrote:
DG is an Apple fanboy

sjmw wrote:
As I said previously, enjoy the status quo

OK look ...it was late, I had just come back from visiting my seriously ill buddy and I was being dismissive and flippant with my

...I apologise for that

Give me the name of any product and I will find you dissatisfied customers in some form...that will never change. To clarify though I don't stand as an apologist nor would I enjoy the status quo from JLR as a manufacturer ...there must always be improvement in production, value and reliability. Like some others who have seen the design & production first hand on a number of occasions it may follow that in explaining the scale and complications of build lines and supply chains in a pragmatic manner some people may view this as apologising for them. Is that an excuse, is it right when you have forked out Â£50k ...no ....but those complications are a reality which are present in the here and now and because you cannot just change production at the drop of a hat ..issues may not be resolved in an acceptable time frame for the customer base.

I agree with many that dealership services are very hit and miss and have experienced this myself on occasions. Accepting Martins point that JLR products are sold through the independent dealers they have an opportunity to solve much of the customer disappointment by chopping out the dealerships who are presenting poor standards of basic customer care. It's not that hard is it ? 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

18th Dec 2013 12:46 pm

Sloss

Member Since: 18 Aug 2013
Location: Aberdeenish
Posts: 1691

Martin wrote:
Keep it civil please guys; don't let tensions spill over here. Thanks.

I quite agree - telling someone when and when not to use Emoticons indeed

Stew,

2010 D4 gone but I really loved it
Went back to Merc - C350 AMG

18th Dec 2013 12:48 pm

adam

Member Since: 20 Sep 2005
Location: Home and Happy
Posts: 6917

If you think it's bad now, I ordered a D3 in late 2004, brochures and specs rarely agreed, so was a bit of a leap of faith on the spec and options I ordered.
Web site was useless
Only issue was no Bluetooth (that was actually not available when I ordered it, despit dealer stating it was)
Apart from that, all OK - so leap of faith that I'm glad I took

18th Dec 2013 1:23 pm

sjmw

Member Since: 05 Jan 2012
Location: Bristol
Posts: 218

Quote:
OK look ...it was late, I had just come back from visiting my seriously ill buddy and I was being dismissive and flippant with my ...I apologise for that

Noted.

Moving on, and addressing the substance of the thread's heading, the replies do seem to indicate that there is a problem (jointly between LR and its dealers).

It's interesting browsing this forum how many faults continue to manifest themselves (e.g. EPB problems) years after first becoming known. Some are fixed but the philosophy of continuous improvement has a fairly loose interpretation in relation to the D3/4 product line.

I have had similar (good) experiences to MattC at franchised Porsche, Mercedes ('though now Merc owned), Honda (with the NSX) and Lexus dealerships so it is possible.

No one is suggesting revolution, but incremental improvements aimed at being the best you can be (cf the Brailsford methodology with the British cycling team or Ron Dennis' approach) are achievable with the right mindset and do not necessarily cost any more.

Pete, if you read this, it would be really interesting to know how LR is doing that and is engaging (to use some horrible jargon) in a positive feedback loop with its user community, a large part of which is presumably represented by this forum

18th Dec 2013 8:21 pm

DG
Site Moderator

Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978

The line management has all issues reported back through the dealership service network and those which demonstrate a pattern are progressed for resolution - some may be easily fixed, others require a major workaround and very rarely some will never be completely resolved. The vast majority of components and software are via a 3rd party supply chain and therefore the process of resolution can take weeks or months especially where changes to production are required. The service action "fixes" are then sent back out to dealerships mainly via the TOPIx where updates appear on an almost daily basis.

The EPB issue was a big problem in the early years of the D3 with hundreds of reports here on the forum and a chorus of screamers heard at many of the meets I attended..... indeed I had many a screamer myself...overall I think it would be safe to say it was never satisfactorily resolved for D3 owners. Progression in production is evident however as the D4 appears to rarely suffer with EPB issues by comparison.

The line invariably does not stop and with 400k+ JLR motors being produced pa, many new models, new components, systems and technology solutions for post production issues are always going to be applied retrospectively until the evolution of fix filters into production itself.

21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021

19th Dec 2013 8:08 am