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dangerdave
Member Since: 23 Nov 2010
Location: <>
Posts: 4495
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 12th Sep 2012 8:47 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
  
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Exactly but the guy did ask: "Should I refuse to pay for the options?"
HJ gave bad advice.
If the contract is to supply a vehicle with the options on the contract, this case says the contract is still valid if they are not supplied. My understanding of the case quoted was one of the dealer being unable to supply the options. The fault is important because if LR could not supply the options then ther dealer cannot be held be to blame. If the dealer failed to order the correct vehicle he is to blame and the buyer would have a case. I stand to be corrected.
In any case HJ did not help him with advice about a) not paying for options. b) asking the dealer for goodwill.
c) Actually saying he would need to know more to be able to help d) suggesting he get proper legal advice.
Instead HJ dispenses legal advice without knowing the details of his case. Just another example of why not to follow advice from pundits. Same on this forum, but at least here you will get a number of opinions before seeking professional advice. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 12th Sep 2012 9:28 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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I will agree with you that the advice is a bit blunt, appears unhelpful and doesn't really set out the options clearly ...so in that sense yes it is bad advice. 
Nevertheless the chap is saying "should I refuse to pay" which implies "I haven't yet paid" ....and asking for dealership goodwill is different to a legal entitlement. Him asking the question of HJ appears to be before he has tackled the dealer.
If the dealer has any ounce of customer loyalty then no doubt they will assist the situation in any way they can....you would hope !  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 12th Sep 2012 10:27 am |
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TwelveSticks
Member Since: 16 Jan 2010
Location: Dublin
Posts: 798
  
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Bit of a minefield...
A few years ago I bought a brand-new Fiat Cinquecento Sporting for SWMBO. We agreed to buy in about May, but told them we didn't want to pick it up until August because they were just about to bring in some upgrades, including built-in alarm and immobilisation, which was non-standard up until then, and we wanted to make sure we got the new version. So we twiddled our thumbs for a few months and then went along to pick her new baby up, only to find that the new car didn't have the alarm at all. Basically, despite us specifically waiting for the new model, they were selling us an old one.
After much arguing, and "well, it's registered to you now, so we can't just give you another one"-type claims, we had to settle for them fitting an after-market alarm/immobiliser. But I was never happy with the situation that we'd ended up in and I always felt they'd conned us... 2001 D2 GS (I must be mad!)
2005 D3 S 10-12 (gone and missed)
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| 12th Sep 2012 11:01 am |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Sorry DG read the question, he actually asked; "Should I refuse to pay for the options and/or insist upon free servicing or some other form of compensation?"
I do not see anywhwere here he is suggesting refusing to pay at all!
HJ did not answer the question hes sked let alone help him.
Would you pay for the options and not ask for any compensation?
DG wrote:Quote:Johnson v HWM Ltd 17-3-1997 Kingston County Court
Allows an indefinite delivery date for a new car and also change of specification
of the car in between dealer order and manufacturer delivering the car to the dealer because both are out of control of the dealer. If a contract has been entered into between dealer and customer with a substantial deposit, then that contact remains binding and, unless specified in the original contract, an indefinite delivery date or change of specification are not breaches of contract.
Coincidently my son has been working with HWM over the last 6 months 8)
HJ also said on another matter:
"If a contract has been entered into between dealer and customer with a substantial deposit, then that contact remains binding and, unless specified in the original contract, an indefinite delivery date or change of specification are not breaches of contract. "
Didn't even ask about thewhether it was in the contract.
As I said it would depend on who was t fault. Was it 'within the control of the dealer,? Was it LR at fault. If dealer at fault this case would not be applicable. If dealer ordered correctly according to buyers instructions then he would need to take it up with LR. To say "Legally, you would struggle with this. The case law is Johnson v HWM, Kingston County Court 1997." is miseading.
Searches for this come up with HJ, no one else seems to use it in such a blanket manner. If it was it would allow dealers to fail to order the options and pocket the money.
Maybe someone here knows more about the legal aspect but I cannot see it being as black and white as HJ clains it to be. If it is written into the contract it should be honoured depending on the fine print (which would also be in the contract)
I would say to anyone in this situation to not to accept this advice. Get some proper advice. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 12th Sep 2012 12:05 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50934
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I think we are at odds over the context of the terminology perhaps unnecessarily ....I'm not here to defend HJ as I'm disinterested in his regular spiel .....and we are certainly not here determining a defined legal position ......we are chewing the cud based on what we know and the available case law. I like to mull over these things albeit without knowing the full facts because they are naturally not available to any distant observer such as you or I.
I read it as he is aware that the vehicle is missing some of the options and he is asking HJ "Should I refuse to pay for the options and/or insist upon free servicing or some other form of compensation?"
Well the fact that he is saying "Should I" would imply to me that although he has ordered them he hasn't paid for the options as yet and quite possibly the car as yet. It would be fairly normal for him only to have paid a deposit - though I do appreciate that we don't have that info as fact.
Whether its LR fault or the dealers fault I wouldn't expect him to pay for those items which are not on the car ...so yes he can "refuse" to pay for them. Insisting on other services as some form of compensation is not a legal entitlement and rather than use the word "insist" he should actually be saying negotiate a good will gesture for the  up. These are the differences that I was trying to point out.
The reason that case law is so thin on the ground is because I'm sure most of these disputes are settled well before it gets to that. 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 12th Sep 2012 1:39 pm |
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caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
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Not the finer points of the law we need to know more details of the case. However HJ seems to be the only one quoting and this is his interretation of it.
His response in this case is what drew my ire as the poor sop could go away and pay for the options he didn't get.
It implies that the dealers can do what they like with the supply of options which I very much doubt is the case in law.
My advice would be to make sure the options are in the contract.
Any lawyers on here? “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.
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| 12th Sep 2012 11:06 pm |
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