ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15263
  
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bellautos wrote:
I can recomend my dealer to anyone Armstrong Massey York,
Glad you got your D4 today Pete and are happy with it.
However as far as AM go IMO they are absolute s h ! t !
Bought my D3 new from them and have never experienced such an appalling level of 'service'.
After b o l l o c k i n g the DP, I moved my business elswhere.
I vowed never to set foot in that place again ... so far I've been true to my word.
But ... and it's a big but ... maybe they've changed 
[but somehow I doubt it, they were s h ! t way back in mid 90's in Layerthorpe] ...... always on the road less travelled 🚧
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 15th Dec 2009 10:45 pm |
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bellautos
Member Since: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NorthYorkshire
Posts: 2532
 
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If you delt with them in the 90s its all new sales and service staff since then,
In fack im sure its new management also.
But i knoww hat you mean, if you have had a bad experience somewhere its rememberd.
I had a good one so ill rememer it i suppose.
Pete
Last edited by bellautos on 15th Dec 2009 10:52 pm. Edited 2 times in total
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| 15th Dec 2009 10:49 pm |
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bellautos
Member Since: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NorthYorkshire
Posts: 2532
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Edit , double post.
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| 15th Dec 2009 10:50 pm |
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ronp
Member Since: 29 Nov 2006
Location: North Yorkshire
Posts: 15263
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Pete I dealt with them in the 90's and I dealt with them 5 years ago with my D3.
In short, I had an issue that they weren't prepared to look at then or later that day.
Same day on my travels I popped into another dealership to ask about the isssue.
They treated me like a king and sorted the D3 out whilst I waited.
I didn't even buy the thing from there, & yet I'd blown £41k with AM
That's just one of many issues I had with them.
But, as said, that's just my own experiences. ...... always on the road less travelled 🚧
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| 15th Dec 2009 10:55 pm |
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bellautos
Member Since: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NorthYorkshire
Posts: 2532
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That does not sound like good support or after sales so i can imagine why you think what you do, and id be the same.
I suppose im lucky, i spend a few k there every month on parts so theyhave to luck after me or they not only lost the car sale but the parts bill of over 40k per year as well.
Pete
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| 15th Dec 2009 10:59 pm |
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DaveC
Member Since: 29 Sep 2009
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1034
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Quote:Can we already set the FBH via the radio as standard ?
I must admit ive not read the books i got with it yet.
in the online owners manual it gives details of how to programme on off times from screen but this is under section that also covers use of remote to switch on. so is it just a software unlock to use the timer setting or do you need hardware?? XC90 T8 R Design Pro
MY14 D4 HSE Lux (sadly gone)
Mariana Black with Ivory interior and lots of toys!
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| 16th Dec 2009 12:06 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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[quote="DaveC"]Quote: so is it just a software unlock to use the timer setting or do you need hardware??
There will be a lot of unhappy owners  who have paid out £1k for the cabin heating option if it turns out that the timed element is readily unlocked 
Without being a killjoy though, bearing in mind the value of these vehicles, I do wonder whether we should think through the whole implications of what is effectively altering or reverse-engineering LR's software  - does anyone know whether we are getting the software under licence rather than being sold it?
If so, then there may be specific licencing clauses - what I am thinking is that when you buy eg a server from HP & it comes with MS Windows Back Office Server 2008 although you feel as if you have bought the software (certainly when you pay the invoice  ) if you check the software licence terms you have "bought a licence" to use it and it specifically prohibits altering it, splitting up the components (eg moving one part of the package onto a different pc even though you are only using it once) or altering the coding.
I'll have to check my D3 manuals - wouldn't surprise me if LR had not thought out this issue anyway! - but if they have, then there could be issues with altering/unlocking/reverse-engineering any of the software . Worst case is that it might void the licence to use the software & then potentially the next time you take the D4 into a LR garage it could come back minus the "altered" software altogether
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| 16th Dec 2009 12:25 pm |
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DaveC
Member Since: 29 Sep 2009
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1034
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err wouldn't the same count then for the 4x4 unlocking and remaps?  XC90 T8 R Design Pro
MY14 D4 HSE Lux (sadly gone)
Mariana Black with Ivory interior and lots of toys!
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| 16th Dec 2009 12:39 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Depending on what is found re the "licence" then with the 4x4 unlocking I suspect "yes" it would hit the same issue. 
Are the remaps not a complete separately coded program loaded on to replace the LR engine management program?, in which case that's like removing MS Word from your pc & loading on OpenOffice & may be OK,  . But if in producing the remaps it involves taking LR's program and altering it then it hits the same issue ... I think in practice though with the remaps (and remapping is a common process with many car makes) LR will just void your warranty as it is not as if you are obtaining something that they would have otherwise sold you in the first place .
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| 16th Dec 2009 12:53 pm |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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I sincerely doubt that most dealers would even spot that you had activated additional bits and pieces above the spec. Most showroom jockeys can't even tell you what a specific model should have.
...........and if a tech happened to spot something like the FBH timer system activated would he know that you hadn't paid for the option?
...........and if a tech passed on the information that you had hacked the FBH to a service manager or receptionist, would they then tell Land Rover?
.........and if.....I am sure you all get the point by now.
I am certain that you would actually have to be at war with a dealer before they jeopardized the relationship with a customer that has just given them £53K of business 2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 16th Dec 2009 12:58 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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I think I've managed to open up quite a can of worms by raising the issue. 
I agree though with mwestcrew that it is unlikely anyone in the dealerships will ever notice or if they do notice actually do anything, but then that's a similar argument that P2P downloaders also use when breaking software licence terms, and even if the dealer does not notice LR sometimes inspect vehicles when warranty claims are made by dealers & they certainly can access the original build spec records
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| 16th Dec 2009 1:11 pm |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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I think this would be a different discussion if the software was supplied by a third party, as is the case with OEM operating systems, or if Land Rover were in the business of creating and selling software. However the software in a car is simply there to make stuff work (in it's simplest form). The car and everything in it is ours to f**k about with at will.
This may lead to an issue with the voiding of warranty, but as I understand it warranty can only be affected if it can be shown that a modification has damaged or caused premature failure of a part that you are attempting to claim under warranty, or you have not adhered to the manufacturers maintenance schedule. 2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 16th Dec 2009 3:01 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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mwestcrew wrote:I think this would be a different discussion if the software was supplied by a third party, as is the case with OEM operating systems, or if Land Rover were in the business of creating and selling software. However the software in a car is simply there to make stuff work (in it's simplest form). The car and everything in it is ours to f**k about with at will.
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Fortunately I don't intend being the party to find out which view is correct
Whether there is a 3rd party involved is of no relevance, (just think of Apple & the iPhone) - it will all turn on what licence (if any) is in place between LR & the owner, which is why I flagged up that this would have to be checked.
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| 16th Dec 2009 3:38 pm |
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John C
Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292
 
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Ecosse wrote:...just think of Apple & the iPhone...
I'm not sure that's the same - jailbreaking the iPhone removes some of the need to use the App Store and a number of other things. Unlocking your 4x4 info (for example) doesn't cost LR anything, and I doubt they care. Did anyone buy the HSE just for the 4x4 info, probably not, most of them bought it for all the other toys.
And anyway, many dealers offer remaps  2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years
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| 16th Dec 2009 3:47 pm |
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DaveC
Member Since: 29 Sep 2009
Location: Wirral
Posts: 1034
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nnnnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeeewayyyyyyyyyyyyyy
to back back on topic i was just looking through (albiet on line version) the owners manual and the section on Climate Control.
it mentions auxillary heater as a "maybe" but i guess we're sure all UK D4's have them? then it goes on to talk about timed climate control. at no point does it say this is an option but I'm assuming the worst. it then covers remote operation.
so it appears to me the timed control could purley be a software issue and thise wanting the remote facility will have to acquire additional hardware.
anyone without the park heat option ever looked at this and checked if it is already there?  XC90 T8 R Design Pro
MY14 D4 HSE Lux (sadly gone)
Mariana Black with Ivory interior and lots of toys!
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| 16th Dec 2009 4:16 pm |
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