Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
Rear suspension work/parts diagram?
Hi,
Well, this morning was supposed to be a great one for me since we have a few inches of snow on the ground and I was hoping to drive around a little after dropping the kids to daycare.
As it turns out, doing a U-Turn (to get into the daycare), the rear of the disco swang and the rear wheel hit a curb! Was not bad of a hit, so I thought things were already (minus the curb rash on the wheel) I am sure our lazyness to change the bald rear tires has nothing to do with it....
Anyway, now the rear tire is not straight anymore.
I limped back home (extremely low speed since the truck was very unstable, lucky for me, the snow ont he ground helped).
Since it's cold outside and the garage is full, I decided to do some research before I remove the tire and find out what seems to be the problem.
Does anyone has a parts diagram that shows all the parts involved in the rear suspension/rear wheel hub?
Not sure what could be bent, since the hit was definitely at very low speed (but then, the LR3 is not light).
Maybe someone has instructions on how to do the wheel alignment that could help?
Thanks,
Loic.
27th Jan 2009 4:27 pm
wiggs
Member Since: 03 Sep 2006
Location: Manchester
Posts: 14368
This happened to someone else on here. must be a week spot, I would be interested when you find out what did break.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you read is not what I meant"
27th Jan 2009 10:41 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
shiny moose wrote:
This happened to someone else on here. must be a week spot, I would be interested when you find out what did break.
It actually took me some time to figure it out...... At first, everything looked fine. Of course, I knew it was not.
The suspension link system looks very strong and unless something bent slightly, that would have been hard to spot and very expensive to replace.
On the picture http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/use...%20toe.JPG (Thanks again to the previous poster! ), the weaker component seems to be the green arm (not sure how they are called). Well, eventhough, it seems like the weaker component, it's actually quite sturdy! What bent is actually the bolt that ties that arm to the wheel hub assembly. The bolt is the weakest part. If I was going offroad with my LR3, I would definitely have a spare in the toolbox (US $10 at the local stealership).
Since I am not sure about the bushing on the arm, I've also ordered replacement part, unfortunately, the arm comes as a single assembly, at first I only wanted to change the bushing, but that's not an option, and I definitely don't have the time to run around, press the bushing out and look for a non-OEM replacement (did I mention that the truck is still under warranty? I'm not taking chances to void it! ).
As I dismantled the suspension and finally found the problem, I looked again at the rim since the tire seemed a little low and to my surprise, I actually discovered that the rim was bent! So I'm in for a new rim or to get it repaired. A new replacement rim costs $650 from Land Rover. There are sets of 4 rims from Range Rover for less that this on eBay (not the 5-spoke though! ).
28th Jan 2009 6:11 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26702
I think you will be wise to have a full alignment check after the new items are fitted.
I bet your glad it was only a bolt.
28th Jan 2009 8:40 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
Yes I was, but that was before I saw the rim.... Anyway, it turns out ok for me. If I was to take a LR3/Discovery off road, I'd definitely have one or two spare bolts in my list of spares to carry.
28th Jan 2009 9:31 pm
caverD3
Member Since: 03 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922
Well done MonLand
A new set of rims would be the go...........................You'll have extras for the next time you do it. “There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
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28th Jan 2009 11:47 pm
phurley
Member Since: 19 Aug 2007
Location: So. NH
Posts: 175
Hi MonLand,
Given all the effort you've already put in, you may not want to read this: I suggest you have your tech inspect the suspension for damage and have them perform the work.
Since the impact generated enough force to bend the toe link bolt and your wheel, there could easily be more damage that may not be apparent to you:
• the upper and lower control arm ball joints could be damaged
• the ball joint brackets could be off-axis
• the knuckle bush housings could be damaged
there's lots more possibilities that I'm going to omit
All the force that is generated when an 2.7 ton vehicle corners hard at 45mph is translated through the suspension. It's just not worth it to 'call it good', IMO.
If you're determined to DIY, you can look in my gallery for the GTR procedure. (PS - There's a reason the bolt can only be tightened 5 times )
In any event, only LR (or an independent with IDS) can do the alignment...
29th Jan 2009 4:32 am
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
phurley wrote:
Hi MonLand,
Given all the effort you've already put in, you may not want to read this: I suggest you have your tech inspect the suspension for damage and have them perform the work.
Thanks for looking out for us (me?). The PDF is great. I will carry out the repair to get the vehicule back on the road (once I have the parts later this week) and while it's up in the air and everything is easy to take a look at, I'll check things further. Since the vehicule is still under warranty and is due for service, I'll have the tech there take a look at it to make sure everything looks right, I'd rather pay for an inspection rather than void the warranty or put my two babies at risk because I overlooked something (plus that's my wife's truck, she would just not be happy about it).
It was actually nice to work on the LR3, it's the first time I get to work on a truck where bolts are not rusted/stuck, suspension components are easy accessible and not linked to each other, etc. That's a change from previous LR experiences (110, Defender 90 and Disco). Now, this is not what I had planned since this is the first Land Rover (and car in general) I buy with a factory warranty.
To be honest, I'm still surprised of the amount of damage I have (for those who are reading this without starting from the top: truck was going less than 10mph doing a U-turn from a stopped start at a red light: i.e. very slow, hit ice/snow on the furthest (3rd and last) lane and rear end swang to the nearby curb, did not go over it, just hit it). I've had much harder hits with other vehicules with much less damage (on and off road). The bolts definitely looks "weak" and based on the GTR information and on the other components I looked at so far, it's probably one of the fuses for the rear suspension system. I guess I'm not used to the weight of the LR3. I've hit rocks when slidding on offcamber mud trails with the D90 and a Disco (Series I) with rim rash only. I went over a curb (and accross the middle section landing on the other side of the road) at 30 mph (black ice, did not pay attention since I wanted to be on time at the airport) and only had minor (front) suspension work (well... minor is a relative term I guess) to do on a much lighter car (Acura Integra). Anyway, that'll teach me to be lazy and not replace tires when they are due. The hit I had with the LR3, I'd definitely see happening on a trail (at least where I go wheeling where it's mostly rocks), but I guess the fact that it hit the rim with a not-deflated tire and did not get dampered by the tire made a difference too.
29th Jan 2009 4:21 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
phurley wrote:
In any event, only LR (or an independent with IDS) can do the alignment...
Strange, I'll have to confirm but the place we are buying the tires from said they'd do the alignment.... I'll check if they have IDS. (first I need to find out what IDS is I guess)
29th Jan 2009 4:23 pm
phurley
Member Since: 19 Aug 2007
Location: So. NH
Posts: 175
IDS is the software diagnostic system introduced by Ford as a replacement for T4/WDS.
The reason IDS is necessary is that LR has issued a tight-tolerance alignment setting software mode for the vehicle to correct the tire-snacking habit that it had developed. If you have a good independent shop that doesn't have IDS, the dealer can set the vehicle in that mode then you can take it to your independent.
Also, Autologic - alternate software diagnostic system commonly used by independents - may allow same setting. PM TFC (tenforcash), he'll know as he has it.
29th Jan 2009 5:01 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
phurley wrote:
IDS is the software diagnostic system introduced by Ford as a replacement for T4/WDS.
The reason IDS is necessary is that LR has issued a tight-tolerance alignment setting software mode for the vehicle to correct the tire-snacking habit that it had developed. If you have a good independent shop that doesn't have IDS, the dealer can set the vehicle in that mode then you can take it to your independent.
Also, Autologic - alternate software diagnostic system commonly used by independents - may allow same setting. PM TFC (tenforcash), he'll know as he has it.
Thanks for the details, I'll have to ask the local shop what they have, since there are a ton of Fords around here, there is a chance they have it. I'll ask them just to be sure.
29th Jan 2009 5:18 pm
MonLand
Member Since: 27 Jan 2009
Location: Herndon, VA USA
Posts: 78
Update
Hey guys,
I figured I'd post an update on this.
Re-install the "rear toe link" (I think that's the right name) was fairly easy. There is only one "trick" in the steps from GTR (thanks again phurley for posting those), the steps say to punch the bolt so it should only be used 5 times, what the steps fail to say is that you should not punch the bolt if this is a new bolt (otherwise, the bolt would only be used 4 times). But that's a small detail.
Tool wise, for those who might need to prepare for it (since I do that from memory... I hope I'm not mixing up the socket sizes):
- jack (the factory jack is probably ok, but you'll have to turn and turn and turn.... )
- jack stands (at least one)
- 18 mm socket (wheel side bolt)
- 21 mm socket (frame side nut)
- torque wrench
- a hole punch (only if you are re-using the bolt)
- a caliper (slide pocket) or any other measuring tool
- an appointment with your prefered service place to do a wheel alignment (in my case, since I won't be driving it until the new tires are installed, I kinda aligned it using the string method)
What you need to make sure you order:
- new bolt (if your bolt is bent or has 4 punch hole in its head) ~$10
- new nut (those are the new style self locking nuts, the old one must be discarded/replaced) ~$8
- the toe link (as of this writing, they are not serviceable, bushings/ are not available) ~$100
A weird behavior I saw, I'm not sure is normal (could be?), I put the truck in "off road" suspension mode, then jacked it up, remove the tire, left the truck with the rear right tire in the air for about 4.5 days, reinstalled the parts,... when I remove the jack the front was in off-road height (or maybe a little higher?) but the rear was below access mode (like "low rider" height). I started the truck (from the outside, I was not sitting in the driver seat, front driver window open, doors closed), the air compressor started (expected), ran for a few minutes (not sure how patient I was, probably not much, so let's say 2 minutes) however, the rear never came back up. It only came up when I switched the suspension to normal mode, then instantaneously the front came down "pushing" air to the rear which came back up, then putting the truck in "off road" mode, then the both sides came up. Not sure what to think of that, but I'd assume that'd never happen off road. Anyway, in case that happens to you, don't freak out, you have a workaround!
As a final comment, I have to say that I was a little surprised (again) to see so much surface rust of my 3 year old LR3 frame. There is rust pretty much everywhere there was a weld (i.e. not due to hitting/scratching on anything). Since this is the first time I have a "new" truck, I don't have any element of comparison. It still feels that the chassis of my 1996 Disco has less rust, maybe I just don't see it.
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), the weaker component seems to be the green arm (not sure how they are called). Well, eventhough, it seems like the weaker component, it's actually quite sturdy! What bent is actually the bolt that ties that arm to the wheel hub assembly. The bolt is the weakest part. If I was going offroad with my LR3, I would definitely have a spare in the toolbox (US $10 at the local stealership).
).
It's just not worth it to 'call it good', IMO.
)
