DISCO4.COM - View topic - Reliability, service the North West

JeffD4

Member Since: 25 Dec 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 77

2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 SE Auto Alaska White

Reliability, service the North West

Hi to all D3/D4 owners,

I have just ordered a D4 3 Litre to be delivered on May 1 2010 and wondered whether any existing longer term owners would be willing to offer views on the reliability of more recent Discovery models? I also intend using the vehicle for a trip or two to the North West of WA. A few years back there were dealers in places like Broome etc but no longer. Does anyone know whether there are approved service agents in these places?

I have owned Land Rovers for many years and currently have a 1967 Series IIA in original condition, and a 1998 300Tdi Discovery. The latter has been a great car taking us on many bush trips and we intend to keep it. But we are new to the D3/D4 series and would greatly appreciate any feedback/comments.

Land Rover Series IIA 1967
Discovery 300 Tdi 1998 (white, ARB bullbar, suspension lift, roof rack, Lightforce spots etc)
Discovery 4 3.0 Litre White, e-diff

27th Dec 2009 9:06 am

disco4x4au

Member Since: 19 Jan 2006
Location: Perth
Posts: 409

We've toured through the Pilbara station tracks, Karijini, Cape Leveque, Gunbarrel, SA and back 3 times. Never needed a service agent - the car never faulted, other than a broken rear window, which the Alice Springs dealer repaired. So I wouldn't worry overly about reliability. Preparation is the key. If you're going to be doing water crossings, know where the electrical 'weak' points are and spray them, have a tarp for deeper crossings. If you have access to a diagnostics tool, all the better, but I've never needed it - although I suppose Murphy's Law would kick in if I forgot it! Maybe some air line and splicers - there's a sticky over at the AULRO D3/D4 forum that lists the sort of things you should carry.

The Nissan dealer in Karratha used to be a LR techie - I think he still works on them if required, but no diagnostic tools.

Cheers,

Gordon ex - 2006 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, with lots of stuff - R.I.P.
ex - 2009 D3 TDV6 SE, silver, had lots of stuff too!
Now - 2010 RRS 3.0 TDV6, rimini red, 18" rims + Cooper LTZ, rear eLocker, Spider tuning box, GOE protection plates and rock sliders, GOE 3way shortened rods.

27th Dec 2009 10:19 am

wopac5

Member Since: 20 May 2007
Location: Karratha
Posts: 146

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Chawton White

Once you head north of Perth you are on your own until you get to Broome. Shinju Nissan in Broome is the LR service agent. Karratha Landrover shut shop 2 years ago. For basic services, anyone can change your oil and filters, but if you need real support you either flat bed back to Perth or North to Broome.

28th Dec 2009 2:42 am

Martin Krutli

Member Since: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 229

2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Chawton White

Service etc.

Always a hard call with a vehicle with limited distributors. We've now done 40,000Ks of which 2/3rds has been off-road towing a camper trailer and not one problem. Flinders Ranges, Israelite Bay, Finke Gorge, Vic High Country, Oodnadatta Track, Lake Eyre, Painted Desert, etc. So long aaas you have good A/T tyres fitted you should have no troubles if the D4 is as reliable as the (later) D3's.
Cheers,
Martin MY08 TDV6 SE. White/Alpaca. BFG265/65/18 At's
Autologic, Trackside Dual Battery syst., Remote GME UHF, 4X4 Intelligence rear wheel carrier, Boab removable rear drawer system w National Luna fridge, Mitchell Bros hitch.
Rasta Plate. 110L LRA long-range fuel tank.

28th Dec 2009 6:10 am

JeffD4

Member Since: 25 Dec 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 77

Many thanks to you all for the responses. I think I've heard of Shinju Nissan in Broome being a service agent, and Gordon has mentioned someone in Karratha. Agree with Gordon that trip preparation is vital, especially a good service before leaving and a check over of all the known "weak points". I just took my D1 (12 years old now) out to Isralite Bay/Mt Ragged and had a wonderful time. I would like to do the trip acrross the Bight now to Eucla. It's heartening to know that people are taking the D3's off road, and not just using them as boulevard cruisers. My only doubt with the D4, apart from the lingering reliability thing, is the tyre issue. I've emailed Coopers to see what they plan for 19 inch rims, and also hope that someone will bring out 18 inch rims that will fit the D4 3 Litre. I'll keep you posted on how I go with the D4 once I get my hands on it (16 weeks to go!)

Land Rover Series IIA 1967
Discovery 300 Tdi 1998 (white, ARB bullbar, suspension lift, roof rack, Lightforce spots etc)
Discovery 4 3.0 Litre White, e-diff

28th Dec 2009 10:17 am

GraemeS

Member Since: 17 Mar 2008
Location: NSW
Posts: 706

2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 SE Auto Nara Bronze

JeffD4 wrote:
.. My only doubt with the D4, apart from the lingering reliability thing, is the tyre issue. I've emailed Coopers to see what they plan for 19 inch rims, and also hope that someone will bring out 18 inch rims that will fit the D4 3 Litre.

I swapped the OEM tyres for Pirelli ATRs directly after delivery as an interim improvement while waiting to see what happens with 18" rims.

28th Dec 2009 10:41 am

WayneD

Member Since: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Sydney Darwin ,Singapore, USA, UK and now country NSW
Posts: 531

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zermatt Silver

JeffD4, I was a bit like you, picked up the D3 and 2 weeks later headed off from Sydney to the Kimberley. As this was my first LR I was a little concerned about reliability. I had the dealer put Cooper ATR's on 17" rims (swapped the 18") and after 11,000klm she was still purring like a kitten. Although the outside was covered in red dust, we had none inside and it handled the corrugations on the GRR with ease.
Like many of the guys on the forum, my D3 has done plenty of good and hard 4wding and has never let me down.
Having said that Im off to the Vic High Country in a week and have probably put the wood on myself.
Its a great touring vehicle I am sure you will enjoy the trips.
cheers
Wayne Take the road less traveled. Dual battery system.ORS drawers,LR cargo Barrier.ARB Bull bar,side protection bars,Mickey Thompson ATR's 17" rims, Rear wheel carrier, radiator guard TPMS Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch LR RAI Steel Rims , GME UHF, Off Road GPS, Llams (yet to be fitted)

29th Dec 2009 11:04 pm

JeffD4

Member Since: 25 Dec 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 77

Once again, thanks guys for all your comments. I am also towing with my D4 - a 2 tonne boat which I take up to Shark Bay etc during the sounthern winter months. But when up there I have oftened wondered what folks with LRs in the North West do for service or break downs that can't be handled by regular mechanics. Generally, all we ever see are Land Cruisers once we get north of Gingin - most of them used as towing platforms for caravans and boats. However, if D4 reliability is good, along with proper preparation, this shouldn't be a problem.

Jeff Land Rover Series IIA 1967
Discovery 300 Tdi 1998 (white, ARB bullbar, suspension lift, roof rack, Lightforce spots etc)
Discovery 4 3.0 Litre White, e-diff

30th Dec 2009 10:13 am

away

Member Since: 18 Nov 2006
Location: Cossack
Posts: 111

2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Fuji White

G'day Jeff,

We just crossed from Alice Springs to Karratha via Great Central road. We tow a Kedron caravan which is just shy of 3.5 tonnes. The vehicle really struggled in the 42 degree heat. Absolutely refused to go up a hill near Tom Price. Had to put the thing in low range 1st gear to get over it. Engine temperature was fine, the guage never moved but you could hear the cooling fan roaring, trying to cool the auto trannie.

Symptoms ranged from burning smell to a very loud clunk and no motion! Had the tranny/transfer case oils changed at alice before we left as a precaution. As soon as we got to Karratha I rang roadside assist as the car had just 3 days warranty left. They arranged transport to Perth and Barabagallos have had it for two weeks. NO DEALERS between Perth and Darwin!

Anyway, Barbagallos have no way of replicating the conditions - they don't have a heavy weight that they can tow and it apparently doesn't get hot enough in Perth - so they haven't found a thing wrong with it. Apparently there are no fault codes either, which is really strange given the symptoms. They say they have examined the tranny oil and it is not burnt. I don't believe them because when the oil was changed at Alice Springs the dealer showed the old oil to me and it was burnt. Because he can only drain 4.5 litres of the total of over 10 litres in the tranny, all he could do was dilute the burnt oil with good oil (at $100 per litre!)

So it seems to me that the auto trans oil would have shown symptoms of overheating regardless of whether the fault was the transmission was at fault or something else was. They can't possibly have checked it!

The whole exercise has been an expensive waste of time (hire cars - Roadside Assist only pay for a max of 5 days) and I am still left without confidence that I can tow the van into remote areas without having a cataclysmic failure occuring. I was lining up for a Disco 4 but I don't think I will after having read the forum and seen all the issues that they are having. And of course, the complete absence of dealers between Perth and anywhere clinches the deal. I'm going to go over to the Dark Side and buy an LC200.

It's a pity because I really loved the D3 and until now it has been an excellent car, but whatever was going wrong out there in the desert is going to fail totally at some time in the future and now that the warranty has expired it is going to kill us when it does.

I guess it's too late for you to buy something else, but for the warranty period at least, you'll be OK with Roadside Assist if something goes wrong. It will just mean a very long tow from the Pilbara to Perth if it does break down.

Cheers

Russ D4: Expedition Rack, 104 Litre Long Range Tank, Raised Air Intake
D3: Every bloomin' thing but the kitchen sink

1st Jan 2010 3:21 am

JeffD4

Member Since: 25 Dec 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 77

Hi Away,

Appreciate you sharing your story with me and very sorry to hear of your bad experience with the towing. Sounds like a transmisions rather than engine issue. Is it possible that you had a transmission problem before you started the trip and it's manifested itself in the extreme heat (42 C), heavy load and hills (the presence of burnt oil at Alice Springs would suggest this)? Also, can't Barbagallos tow your 3.5 tonne van, get them to try bringing it up Greenmount Hill on a 38 degree day (there are a couple coming up soon I think). This should easily replicate the conditions. (Or have you left your van in the NW?).

Re issues with the D4 the only major one I can see so far from the forum is the "reduced performance" problem but that seems to be now isolated to a certain VIN range and is related to a sticking turbo actuator (supposedley fixed now). There are a few other niggling things that people have reported but I may be missing something. I also believe that the LC 200 is not without problems (see LC websites) - eg: issues with the diesel, but given the number of them on the road being used to tow big vans, maybe this would be the best choice for you.

Good luck with getting your trannie sorted with Barbagallos, I would insist that they find something 'big enough' to tow and maybe not give up on the D4 just yet

Regards,

Jeff
' Land Rover Series IIA 1967
Discovery 300 Tdi 1998 (white, ARB bullbar, suspension lift, roof rack, Lightforce spots etc)
Discovery 4 3.0 Litre White, e-diff

1st Jan 2010 5:57 am

away

Member Since: 18 Nov 2006
Location: Cossack
Posts: 111

G'day again Jeff,

I think the decision to get an LC200 has more to do with your original question than anything else Jeff.....there just aren't enough dealers around to fix problems if you have them. Toyota, on the other hand, appear to have a dealer on every corner!

Re the transmission: The dealer at Alice Springs knows me really well. He had just been to a course on the D4 introduction and the matter of the D3 transmissions came to light while he was there. Apparantly a couple of transmissions had failed recently and in each case the vehicle had been used to tow heavy vans/boats consistently.

Land Rover then decided that the "sealed for life" transmissions did,in fact, need to be opened and have their oil changed at approx 80,000Km. As ours had been towing almost all of its life, the dealer strongly recommended that we change the oil as a precaution. The car was already booked in for its 84000 Km service and we readilly agreed to have the oil changed. Even though the oil was burnished, the vehicle had, until then anyway, never exhibited any signs of trouble.

I'm convinced that the issue is to do with the combination of both heat and weight and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that some form of protection is trying to kick in when the car stops. The problem is that
a) Barbagallos have no way of testing a function that the car is designed to do - ie pull 3.5 tonnes
b) Barabagallos said that the tranny oil was OK when it could not possibly have been so.
c) the car had to go to Perth in the first place

In answer to your question, the van didn't go to Perth. Under the Roadside Assist program they will ship your car but not anything that you may be towing. Additionally, we live in the van and needed it here at Karratha.

Gordon at Barabagallos is a nice enough bloke but it seems to me that he doesn't think outside the box much. In the finish I suggested to him that they take a heavy tow rope, my Disco and another heavy car such as another Disco and use my car to tow the other car up some decent hills, with the brake applied on the other car to get an approx towing weight of 3.5 tonnes. I even suggested Greenmount or Lesmurdie Hills. This was after they had fluffed around with the car for over a week.

In the end he finally did what I said but chose to drive up some of the hills near Barbagalllo motors. Christ! There aren't any 8% gradient hills around that area so he was missing the whole point. A complete waste of time.

He has also ignored the quite pronounce "lash" in the drive-train that I notified them about. I have read about this today and seen that several contributors to this forum have had the same issue.

I tell you something Jeff. If a miracle happens and I am somehow convinced to buy a Disco 4, I will be buying it from Alice Springs and driving the b

d there and back to have it serviced. At least Neil Sutton knows what he's talking about when it comes to Land Rovers.

Cheers

Russ D4: Expedition Rack, 104 Litre Long Range Tank, Raised Air Intake
D3: Every bloomin' thing but the kitchen sink

1st Jan 2010 6:25 am

caverD3

Member Since: 02 Jul 2006
Location: Oberon, NSW
Posts: 6922

2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 SE Auto Fuji White

Sounds like transmission issue. Also I think the D3 cuts the engine output when it gets too hot.
There is transmission cooler for the Gulf region I believe so in extreme heat LR obviously think it is needed.

Start a tread asking those in the region if they can confirm.

You now have the problem recorded incase there is an issue later.

The LC200 has transmission problems as well. I think the system moderates the torque from the engine until it reahes third gear. There have been a few faiures and more than a few engines blowing. â€œThere are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely gamesâ€
Ernest Hemmingway
D4 3.0 Active Diff, Adaptive Lights, High Beam Assist, Surround Cameras, Privacy Glass.
D3 2.7:Adaptive Headlights,Electronic Rear Diff,ARB Bar,Blaupunkt Speakers,JVC Powered Subwoofer,Removable Snorkel,Mitch Hitch,Pioneer After Market Head Unit,Steering Wheel Control Adaptor,Remote Adjustable Supension Rod System, Taxside Dual Battery System.

1st Jan 2010 8:31 am

JeffD4

Member Since: 25 Dec 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 77

Hi Russ,

Thanks for the extra history on this transmission problem - very interesting to know this - sounds like there might be an issue with the ZF box when towing consistently with heavy loads - hopefully (fingers crossed), I won't get this as my boat is only 1.6 tonnes (depending on fuel load etc) and I tow north during winter.

My D1 (300 Tdi) has a breather on the transfer box - when doing hard sand driving (e.g. once we did 2 kms in second gear low range at 3,500 to 4,000 rpm to get off a beach area on the south coast) this breather some times "opens up" and one gets a blast of hot oil smell. When this first happened I thought I had done the transfer box, but my mechanic who has worked on LRs for 20 years, tells me this is normal in the D1 when the transfer box gets hot. It does it on Greenmount Hill occasionally when we bring the boat home on a 40 degree day. I believe he also told me that the ZF auto in our D1 has a similar breather to release excess heat (probably your much later box has such a breather?). The same mechanic was keen to ensure that the transmission cooler fitted to my ZF box was up to the towing job I am currently asking of it - if not he was going to replace the standard LR cooler with an after market one (this could be what CaverD3 refers to). Just wondering if you have the stock-standard LR cooler?

The other thing that you might like to know is that I'm sure I read a comment somewhere on this forum recently from a member in Australia who had a new transmission put in his D3 just before it went out of warranty - think it had something to do with the dealer finding metal filings in the fluid during its last within-warranty service - LR (I think) volunteered to replace it without any argument. One other member posted a reply to say that ZF might be interested to know that this is what happened to one of their boxes. Is there any way that you can talk to ZF directly?

Best,

Jeff Land Rover Series IIA 1967
Discovery 300 Tdi 1998 (white, ARB bullbar, suspension lift, roof rack, Lightforce spots etc)
Discovery 4 3.0 Litre White, e-diff

1st Jan 2010 9:30 am

JeffD4

Member Since: 25 Dec 2009
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 77

Russ,

Just another thought - try taking the car to Southern LR - same owners but different service Departments, they may have another take on your problem. I have always found them helpful. Also, there are several other LR workshops around Perth - though they can't do warranty work they may be able to give you another view on this which you can then take back to the dealer. Anyway, just some thoughts that might help. Ultimately, you're right that it's the lack of dealers north of Perth that's your real cause for concern. If something goes wrong up there (as it can with any car) it's tough to get help.

Best,

Jeff Land Rover Series IIA 1967
Discovery 300 Tdi 1998 (white, ARB bullbar, suspension lift, roof rack, Lightforce spots etc)
Discovery 4 3.0 Litre White, e-diff

1st Jan 2010 9:37 am

rmp

Member Since: 15 Jan 2009
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 73

A steep hill, 3500kg trailer and a 42d day are conditions that any 4WD will struggle with, and I presume the aircon was going as well. I seem to recall Tom Price is about the highest place in WA and the elevation wouldn't help. An 8% grade is not super-steep but it's more than trivial especially if it's windy and long which allows temperatures to build up.

A vehicle's maximum tow rating does not mean it can tow that weight all day in all conditions. A hill, heat and elevation is especially problematic as you'll no doubt slow down which reduces cooling airflow and the engine has thinner air to deal with. I suspect the 200 would also have struggled so would be reluctant to blame the D3 for requiring low range.

For any remote tourer I would recommend the maximum trailer weight be no more than 2/3 of the maximum and 1/3 if you intend to tow it offroad (low range) simply to avoid these sorts of situations. If it was all highway work with high speed and gentle grades that's fine, but we're talking about touring Australia not cruising autobahns. --
Robert
Life is better in low range

1st Jan 2010 10:10 am