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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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The manifolds may well have been changed outside of the dealer network, given the cost.
It's not unusual for 'C-19' to be quoted as the reason for missed servicing, we're still playing catch-up, working out what needs doing on top of the scheduled servicing, then ringing the customer for auth., only to get 'well you quoted me....' is a pain and some use it as a reason to try to get the dealership to give them something for free 'because Covid' really shows people in their true light.
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 17th Dec 2022 8:50 pm |
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jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 28
 
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I get the impression from looking at all the paperwork that the first owner cared more about the 22" Range Rover wheels they had fitted than other oily bits. They did it's first MOT in May 2019 and had some advisories on tyre tread, postponed the 2020 one until December under the extension (somehow doing 17k during those summer lockdowns). With the cam belt probably coming up fast at the mileage they seemed to be doing, they tried selling it for silly money over about 9 months. It finally sold a few months before the next MOT where the new owner did the big, long overdue service instead of getting the new tyres mentioned in previous MOTs.
It's not a car that looks or feels neglected, but I think it's costs got away from the previous owners. Luckily they both sold it instead of running it on the cheap.
It very possible that it suffered cracked inlet manifolds (do 22" wheels fit the stereotype of someone who's going to try and thrash it?) and they replaced them outside the network. I much prefer paper service records for this reason!
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| 17th Dec 2022 8:59 pm |
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jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 28
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Flatlander wrote:The manifolds may well have been changed outside of the dealer network, given the cost.
It's not unusual for 'C-19' to be quoted as the reason for missed servicing, we're still playing catch-up, working out what needs doing on top of the scheduled servicing, then ringing the customer for auth., only to get 'well you quoted me....' is a pain and some use it as a reason to try to get the dealership to give them something for free 'because Covid' really shows people in their true light.
On that subject, I'm making it my mission to play catch-up on this car. I think in the New Year I'll be having the ZF gearbox flushed (rather than do the double drain and fill myself), change the coolant as it's looking old, oil change with 5W40, etc.
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| 17th Dec 2022 9:01 pm |
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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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Paper service records are only useful if a) someone keeps them, with a view to a future sale, and b) the write-up is accurate, many I've seen have been 'summarised' and therefore useless. Although I work for a dealer (non-JLR at the mo.) and may be seen as biased although I prefer it to working for an indie, one advantage of using dealers is that the entire workshop history is available, even across different ownership (e.g. Inchcape or Stratstone), there's nothing to stop you requesting a DPA compliant copy of the records, although in this case, it may not help. TBH, if the vehicle is under some sort of used car warranty, you may well be better off informing them of the issue with a 'your problem' look in your eye. That way, any subsequent related issues will be down to them to resolve, in sales warranty or not.
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| 17th Dec 2022 9:18 pm |
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jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 28
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Flatlander wrote:TBH, if the vehicle is under some sort of used car warranty, you may well be better off informing them of the issue with a 'your problem' look in your eye. That way, any subsequent related issues will be down to them to resolve, in sales warranty or not.
That's the approach I'll be taking for sure with the inlet manifolds. It's all been informal so far because we've been talking about a £30 pipe missing, and the dealer seemed happy to fix it without using the third party warranty that came with the car. There were a few issues with bodywork damaged after sale and before delivery that have been dragging on, so I think this is just another snag to them.
When I mention that work needs to be done on the manifolds then I'm sure it might become more formal.
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| 17th Dec 2022 9:23 pm |
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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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It may be a bit late, but photos emailed along with descriptive text (of the issue only - don't 'suggest' how to resolve it) will give you an audit trail and give them no wriggle room. Not withstanding other cosmetic issues, the 'Approved Used Inspection' should have picked up the venting crankcase gases - that is wholly down to the selling dealer to resolve - it's of no concern to you who pays (or to some extent, how they do it - you can't insist on new manifolds if the fit blanking caps and they're securely fitted, for instance) As long as the issue is resolved with a permanent fix, that's all you need and all they need to do.
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| 17th Dec 2022 9:39 pm |
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jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 28
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I bought from Carrs Select - a second-hand dealer across the road from Carrs JLR who I suspect get a lot of their trade-ins that are too old for the main dealer to sell as "approved used". They are separate, but also the same.
The salesman I dealt with at Select works for both garages and has given the main dealer the green light to fix the missing pipe. Incidentally the main dealer was the workshop that carried out the pre-sale inspection, service and a few odd jobs like brakes. So yes, they did miss the smoking crankcase gasses.
There's nothing in writing so far, but if when I go in on Wednesday they don't seem inclined to fix it properly then I'll make sure I send an email with a full run down of everything that's happened and make sure they agree with that summary. Look at me — owned a Land Rover for 3 weeks and already playing silly  with service depts! 
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| 17th Dec 2022 9:45 pm |
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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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TBH, it's the same with any brand, I've worked for Ford, JLR, Volvo, PSA, Audi, MB and a couple of others and they all wriggle and squirm when confronted with issues. The causes are basically that the tech's are not given enough time to complete the checks as described, and if they do, the sales depts. have the final say on what is done and what is left 'to see if the buyer notices' - not what the brand (any brand) wants potential buyers to be presented with, but that's what it is. I've never known any dealer not resolve any genuine issues, bar a few boy-racer cars coming back with burned-out clutches or brakes... Fortunately I do few AUI's, otherwise our sales dept. wouldn't be hitting their bonuses most months 
If you haven't been given one already, ask for a copy of the used car inspection sheet, that should detail the checks and issues found. If they can't or won't provide it, ask why. Although you're dealing with the Aftersales dept, it's the sales dept. that hold the purse strings - on or off site. Make yourself a PITA with them, things will get done.
Last edited by Flatlander on 17th Dec 2022 10:05 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 17th Dec 2022 9:59 pm |
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jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 28
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This is it, and why I have no qualms about the supposed unreliability of Land Rovers. Any car that is as complex as a D4 will go wrong and will likely be expensive to fix. Therefore, all similar cars probably share similar issues, and ergo all dealerships develop similar responses to handle the similar problems.
I plan to do plenty to this car myself. What I can't do will be given to a good independent (anyone have recommendations for Cornwall?).
If all my talk with them comes to nought, which I imagine is unlikely; then I can easily and cheaply resolve the issue myself — be that blanking the inlets or fitting the scavenge pipe.
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| 17th Dec 2022 10:05 pm |
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jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 28
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Right, been to LR and they've fitted the breather. Had a long chat with their chief mechanic as I had more questions than the service advisor could help with.
He's of the opinion that the engine was changed a few years ago when there was a shortage of inlet manifolds which would explain why both are of the old type with a breather. I'm not sure I buy that as an engine swap over a couple of inlets seems excessive. I feel that both were replaced when one cracked and older ones were used because of that same parts shortage. He thinks a new engine is more likely because (and I quote) "how many 6 year old, 57,000 mile Discovery's are still running on their original engine?"
I've spoken to the original dealer to see if they have record of what the engine number was at delivery. Does anyone know if changing the engine number on the V5 is a requirement when changing an engine? I would resume so (and V5 and plate on left-bank manifold match) but obviously can't easily see what's stamped on the block.
We talked a little about crank failures. He thinks they are more prone to failure when they aren't worked hard. As long as "they are treated like a Collie" i.e. worked hard but loved and looked after they are OK. It's the low mileage ones that only trundle to Waitrose that suffer. His example was the D4 commercial he ran for two years that was always laden or towing and did 112,000 miles on one engine. This isn't the high praise he obviously felt it was in my opinion.
We dug into the cars history from their records, but that only extends back a few years and ~15,000 miles. Sounds like the last owner got shafted with a lot of big bills in the space of a few thousand miles, hence the sale I reckon. One was the cambelt and then 1500 miles later a big "oil leak" that turned out to be a faulty oil sensor and (I'm guessing) and overfill of oil that resulted in oil leaking from the camshafts and covering the belt because it was replaced again alongside the sensor.
I now need to decide what to do with the car. It's got more of a chequered past than I thought (or is documented) and the crankshaft problems (and a D4's likelihood of big bills) feel more real than ever.
Food for thought!
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| 21st Dec 2022 12:59 pm |
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