Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
Smoking from open ended pipes on intake manifold. Breathers?
Hello,
I was just checking my oil pressure (and getting some fanciful readings...but that's another story) and noticed a decent amount of blue-ish smoke coming from under the foam pieces that cover the hard fuel lines atop each bank's intake manifold. Inside there's an open ended pipe which is where the smoke is coming from.
This struck me as odd. It was smoking more than I'd expect a breather to, and seemed an odd location (although I guess these open pipes would be better protected from moisture under the foam).
I've looked through the workshop manual and done a search here and on Google and not sound mention of them.
Are these breathers, and do I have anything to worry about? Could the colder weather (2C here this morning) be making this more noticeable than it normally is (i.e. some moisture in the smoke?)
I've attached pictures. First shows the right bank where there is more smoke. Pipe is hard to make out on this photo. Second photo is left bank. Less smoke, and pipe indicated. Cheers!
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
EDIT:
After looking at the workshop manual some more, and online images of spare manifolds, this pipe seems to be part of it? Another image with arrow added below. It would seem that this should connect to the crankcase breather system?
The part linked above is called the "Cylinder ventilation scavenger hose" and it shown on page 2420 of the workshop manual. It appears my car is missing it, and the port on the oil separator plugged. I'm assuming this is required and hasn't been omitted for any (good) reason?
14th Dec 2022 12:18 pm
jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
Further update. Took it back to the dealer I bought it from. Went straight over his head and immediately sent me to the JLR garage across the way (they are affiliated).
Tech took a look at it. Agreed there shouldn’t be smoke and agreed that the part I linked above looked to be missing. According to their system this VIN shouldn’t have that part (!) yet he feels that the amount of smoke is far too much to be normal. They’ve ordered the part for me and will do a smoke test next week just to rule out any other leaks.
Side note: First time I’ve been in a LR dealership and sat in the service waiting area. I’m guessing it feels like a high end airport lounge for good reason!? 😂
14th Dec 2022 3:50 pm
Sylvester19
Member Since: 17 Jul 2020
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 128
If it's what I'm thinking, I just have the plug, have a look to double check, what year is your car?
14th Dec 2022 11:42 pm
jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
Mine is a 2016.
That's the bung that is over the oil separator on mine. If yours has that, are the ends on top of the intakes left opened or capped?
A few parts online are restricted by VIN numbers, so I wonder if JLR simply did away with on later cars for some reason? I know these kinds of crankcase breathers always caused problems on my old car (Audi 2.0TFSI) and many owners removed them. I would have thought that the intake manifolds would have been "bunged" too though.
15th Dec 2022 7:30 am
Sylvester19
Member Since: 17 Jul 2020
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 128
Mine has that bung, 2016, bonnet is still frozen, slight thaw tomorrow, hopefully I'll get it opened without ripping the foam.
15th Dec 2022 10:27 pm
Sylvester19
Member Since: 17 Jul 2020
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 128
Bonnet open, someone else has posted about the bonnet foam at the A pillar being frozen, they're like a sponge full of water when you squeeze them
I've taken a couple of photo's with a borescope, resolution isn't that good on a pc, both are sealed as part of the moulding at the bottom, dealer confirmed mine doesn't have those pipes on it.
Maybe someone reading this that has a new inlet manifold still to be fitted can take a photo of the underside to show that the pipe is sealed.
N/S
O/S
17th Dec 2022 4:29 pm
jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
That’s brilliant, thank you. So the oil separator has a rubber cap and the manifolds themselves are sealed? Mine are definitely open and the source of the smoke as it stops when I stick a finger over them.
I’ll ask the garage when I take it in on Wednesday, see what they say and if they can find out whether the scavenge pipes were blocked on later models for any particular reason.
17th Dec 2022 5:46 pm
Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
I'd take a guess that the inlet manifolds have been replaced at some point and the blanking caps not transferred over from the old ones, they should not be open to atmosphere.
17th Dec 2022 6:00 pm
jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
I agree that feels the most likely. Now…do I ask the dealer to fit correct manifolds or fit vacuum pipe?
17th Dec 2022 6:08 pm
Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
Just fit the caps - fitting the pipes will potentially compromise the emissions compliance, replacing the manifolds is pointless, fit the caps with a bit of the correct adhesive would be my solution.
17th Dec 2022 6:27 pm
jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
Ah so the caps can be added to a non-blanked manifold? That sounds like the best bet in that case!
17th Dec 2022 6:35 pm
Sylvester19
Member Since: 17 Jul 2020
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 128
Can't see any part number on the manifold, probably hidden under something. Blanking plugs, easy fix, question should be asked to LR technical, are these the correct manifolds, did they have blanking plugs, and not the manifolds more liable to cracking, any history with the car?
17th Dec 2022 7:35 pm
Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
jdumont wrote:
Ah so the caps can be added to a non-blanked manifold? That sounds like the best bet in that case!
IIRC the pipes are the same bore at both ends so the caps for the oil separator should fit on the inlet manifolds, just bond them on with suitable adhesive as they are under (slight) pressure, not suction.
Last edited by Flatlander on 17th Dec 2022 7:42 pm. Edited 1 time in total
17th Dec 2022 7:41 pm
jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
Only history was what's online with LR which was services at approx. 8,500 // 21,500 // 48,800 and 55,000 with the cam belt being done at 43,800. All are "A" services if done according to months that LR called each service, but what has effectively been missed from B services is covered by MOT.
I'm already a bit unhappy with the dealer that sold it as they referred to it as "full JLR service history" which is correct if they meant "all garages have been JLR main dealers" but it's obviously missed services. That big 27,000 mile gap happened during Covid and then the transition to it's second owner (I'm the third).
I think I'll be asking LR to pull up the details of each service and see what's been done, when the intakes might have been changed and go from there.
17th Dec 2022 7:42 pm
jdumont
Member Since: 03 Nov 2022
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 30
Flatlander wrote:
jdumont wrote:
Ah so the caps can be added to a non-blanked manifold? That sounds like the best bet in that case!
IIRC the pipes are the same bore at both ends so the caps for the oil separator should fit on the inlet manifolds, just bond them on with suitable adhesive as they are under pressure, not suction.
They are very different. The oil separator connection is a barbed opening only a few mm wide and the cap is probably no larger than a pencil eraser. The inlet manifolds are large enough I can just about stick the tip of my little finger in them.
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