UNG
Member Since: 20 Jun 2008
Location: Lancs
Posts: 773
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SN wrote:Even the bl**dy colour of the car is known to affect the rate of claims
If the model vehicle you drive has been involved in a high number accidents that pushes up the quote so much for assessing individual driver risk "Never keep up with the Joneses. Drag'em down to your level. It's cheaper".
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 29th Jan 2016 10:10 pm |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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CFB wrote:This forum used to encourage this kind of debate, no need to put people down, we are all entitled to an opinion.
Opinion without facts is the dictionary definition of prejudice. 
Debate ends when empirical facts over-ride conjecture. Or at least that's generally the idea. I've let so many of these "all insurers are  " threads go unchallenged and got bored of all the ill-informed responses so thought, you know, let's throw some actual facts into the mix. But by all means let's all ignore that and just have a rant about insurers. It's bound to change things, right?
UNG, you understand that risk is a combination of factors? That a vehicle that tends to be chosen by those who drive with less regard for others is a factor, but you can counter that if you, as an individual, have a good record. Hence I can get insurance on some turbo nutter rally beast for less than £250 a year when a 20-something will get nailed to the wall for the same car.
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| 29th Jan 2016 10:19 pm |
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BBDisco3
Member Since: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3646
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NoDo$h wrote: Having done a fair bit of work on risk tables and actuarial pricing process as part of a takeover I was involved in, the amount of data analysis that goes into these pricing models is massive and throws up some interesting points (the colour reference made by SN is a classic and empirically evidenced example).
Perhaps you could explain why the premium for a "painter & decorator" can attract a different premium to a "decorator" as can a "joiner" to a "carpenter" Also "housewife" to "retired person" 
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| 29th Jan 2016 10:30 pm |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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Risk tables. Things get broken down into chunks. A boundary is drawn. Sometimes appears arbitary and made all the muddier by pricing comparison sites that further aggregate detail to the lowest common denominator.
Example: Housewife. Nature of journeys and passengers carried in general terms different from retired person. More likely to carry children (distraction)
The above doesn't take into account one very significant factor. Those who describe themselves as a housewife have a different claims record on the whole to those who describe themselves as retired.
Carpenter vs. joiner. Nature of tools carried by a joiner more likely to be high value, greater risk of high value thefts from vehicle.
Decorator vs. Painter & Decorator. See previous re. those who describe themselves as such having differing claims profiles.
Will you have a claim declined for declaring one similar work type over another? No.
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| 29th Jan 2016 10:40 pm |
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BBDisco3
Member Since: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3646
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So the data used is flawed ?
A 60 year old housewife may or may not carry children just as much as a 60 year old retired person and would probably carrying out the same domestic duties of shopping etc.
Not too sure what tools a carpenter may carry which are different to a joiner to influence the theft risk.
Painter or Painter & Decorator are the same risk regardless of which term is used when a claim occurs.
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| 29th Jan 2016 10:52 pm |
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NoDo$h
Member Since: 02 May 2006
Location: Finding new and exciting ways to milk badgers.
Posts: 19689
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Data can only be as good as as the input. If lots of users call themselves "joiner" and have no accidents, while lots of users call themselves "carpenter" and have loads, the data is gamed against those who call themselves carpenter.
The tools scenario is another variation on the same. If few "carpenters" have tool loss claims while lots of "joiners" do, that's how the data runs.
You did see the "in general terms" bit?
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| 29th Jan 2016 10:59 pm |
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BBDisco3
Member Since: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3646
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So two different premiums for the same trade - is that fair?
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| 29th Jan 2016 11:03 pm |
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BBDisco3
Member Since: 23 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 3646
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NoDo$h wrote:threads go unchallenged and got bored of all the ill-informed responses so thought, you know, let's throw some actual facts into the mix.
My thoughts too
Sweet Dreams 
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| 29th Jan 2016 11:17 pm |
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Tanglewood
Member Since: 27 Feb 2011
Location: Wilts
Posts: 1376
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Love these rabbit holes! Night Jim Bob.
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| 29th Jan 2016 11:42 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
 
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It would be interesting to see how many people who have done a awareness course go on to be caught again, compared to a person with a existing conviction (who didn't do a course) getting a second offence.
That would show if they worked or not I guess and also if the insurance compaonies are justifiable in loading premiums the same as a speeding conviction. £100 seems quite a loading though.
At the end of the day if it was easy, no insurance company would ever make a loss. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.
There are quite a few drivers on the road where I wonder whether they would get insurance if the company had actually met them and seen their cars 
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| 30th Jan 2016 7:51 am |
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Grunders
Member Since: 30 Apr 2011
Location: Manchester
Posts: 2334
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And also if they declared all the true facts...... Those who do may pay a higher premium but have less chance of a claim being declined..... If it ain't broke... Take it apart anyway, how else you gonna find out how it works
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| 30th Jan 2016 8:28 am |
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Russell
Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
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So does it work out better when renewal comes round if you have take the hit and got points or been a good boy and doen the course, which attracts the lower premium? MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
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| 30th Jan 2016 10:22 am |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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Points = lower premium as your less likely to re offend
Course = no points so the likely hood is you will probably reoffend
Last SAC I attended a unnamed chap turned up in a F430 and left elevens in the carpark on exit 
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| 30th Jan 2016 11:41 am |
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