For me the issue with the D5 is that the Discovery 5 IS Land Rover's replacement for the D4. So if I don't like the D5, that's a Discovery owner that's going to go elsewhere.
Well the D4 is replaced by the D5 for the car buyer and the new Defender is supposed to be targeted at the utility D4 buyer.
LR have said that the only way they can justify a new Defender is if they broaden it's appeal .
Only trouble is the D5 is the only option from LR at the moment.
25th Nov 2016 3:39 pm
Deanos_Beano
Member Since: 21 Feb 2016
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 563
petersw wrote:
I've sat in a D5 & Test driven a RRS with view to buy.
The RRS seems dated compared to D5 & is more expensive like for like.
I also own a transit
Same here but I think you get more from throwing 66k at a RRS than you get chucking it at a D5 , however RRS2 2017 will maybe more expensive bang for buck .
All moot cause I need D4 for its commercial/ Lifestyle comfort attributes so D4 upgrades for next 10 year for me I think
25th Nov 2016 4:22 pm
sycove
Member Since: 25 Mar 2015
Location: Burntisland
Posts: 396
Just back from having a look at the D5 in Pentland Edinburgh.
I liked it better than i thought i would BUT i certainly wouldn't go out and swap it for my D4
I'd go as far as saying if I walked into a showroom and there was a brand new D4 & D5 for the same price i'd drive away in a D4 every time.
In 12-24 months time when i replace my D4 i will certainly consider the D5 but it will be a difficult swap.
Anyway here are my thoughts
It does look good, and the quality inside is excellent
No matter what they tell you about D5 being bigger, it certainly feels smaller inside.
I'm only 5'8 and felt headroom was tight.
I liked the large sunroof/alpine roof
Electric seat fold and boot lid are good, i didn't like that to fold the 2nd row seats for access to the 3rd row means that the 1st row seats have to slide forward.
Access to 3rd row was more difficult, and again i felt they were more cramped than the D4s
I found the drivers seat not as comfortable as the D4, lumbar supports dug into my back
I really like all the additional storage areas that have been included, such as below cup holders and behind AC panel.
It didn't help that there was a D4 parked next to the D5 that kept catching my eye and whispering to me " you know I'm the best"
I am still hoping that the new Defender is a suitable replacement for me, because as nice as the D5 is it is no substitute for a proper Discovery
25th Nov 2016 4:35 pm
Big Al
Member Since: 20 Jan 2005
Location: Wiltshire UK
Posts: 143
I've just seen the D5, mmmm 2nd and 3rd row seating is awful
I've just come back after viewing and sitting in the new D5, at Grange Wootton Bassett, Swindon. On the whole the outside looks great, even the rear end, and most of the vehicle looks stunning, but there are some major flaws which could easily be recitified, and hopefully so before I need to change my vehicle in 2 years time.
The D5 looks gorgeous from the outside and too be honest, whilst I was expecting the worst from the tailgate, it actually grows on you. Its by no way a Discovery, as some marketing idiot has obviously got carried away and is now calling everything a Discovery!!! including a RangeRover Sport+, which this is.
The build quality, fit and finish seems to be very good and I look forward to taking the V6 out for a spin (I wouldn't even bother about the 4-pot). I had an interesting discussion with one of the LR marketing people (not the showroom staff who I know well) who basically didn't know enough about the heritage of the Discovery. As I said this really isn't in the same vein as the current Discovery and cetainly not a Sport UTILITY Vehicle. Its more of a soft-roader and mummy-mobile for ferrying around precocious hordes of kids.
As I stated earlier I was expecting the worst, particularly having concerns about the tailgate and electric fold out flap. Thank god that both tailgate and flap operate fast, but I still believe its overkill in pursuit of providing cover whilst delving into the boot, and providing a place to sit. Personally I would have designed a smaller/shorter lower split tailgate which would have provided the functionality in a much simplier manner. (Keep It Simple, Stupid!!)
The front row driving posiiton and console seems to be very well laid out and front seats were incredibly comfortable. I cant wait to see how it drives, and play with all the features. However it certainly wasn't the same person designing the seats in the front to the rest of the vehicle.
In a nutshell, whilst the front seats support the body well and have numerous adjustments, the middle row seats in particular are the single worst part of this vehicle. The middle row seating is no longer three full sized seats (which whilst desireable and a function within the current D3/4 it isn't a deal breaker). However the seats are too low (at a vertical height of approx 350mm (~12") from the floor and worst still they have a flat!!!! bolster. Compare the vertical height to that of a Discovery Sport @ 370mm, the D5 seat height is lower!!! Being a passenger for any distance in the 2nd row seats will be a very uncomfortable for all, as they D5 2nd/3rd row seat dont support the thighs. Therefore, ,<snip> these seats will be very uncomfortable for all spending any long journey in such. I cant believe in this day and age, that a major car manufacturer has been able to design such poor seating offering no thigh support. You would have thought for all vehicles nowadays that fit/form and ergonomics are a major design goal and high on any designers criteria - but obvously not here. FYI if you had to design seating for computer users, who might sit for long periods at a time, Health and Safety regulations state that the thigh must be supported!!! Unfortuantely the 3rd row seats aren't any better, but at least I suppose you could argue that they are more occassional use. FYI I regularly transport a full compliment of 7 large adults in my D3/4 and all find the seating to be very comfortable, plus entry into the 3rd row seating is good. Compare seating of the 3rd row in the D5, to that of the D3/4. and the D5 again has a flat seat bolster and is again very low the floor. Add to this you definately need to be a contortionist to be able to get in and out of the vehicle, made worst by the demented electrically controlled seated. This is definately a case of b*llsh*t baffles brains, and the electric seat controls are a gimmick and going to be a flashpoint for numerous familes with kids who will constantly play with the electric seat controls, trying to close such even if someones is in them!!!
I personally would not just fire whoever designed the middle/3rd row seats, but publicly shoot or better still crucify them and put them on show to the rest of the world as an example to others peddling such poor design. As a bonus they would be removed form the gene-pool too!!
I'm guessing that the major rationale for the low seating in the reduced roof height of the D5 compared to the D3/4 however, I'm still pretty sure the 2nd and 3rd row seating should be so much better, especially considering this is a premium vehicle, circa £50-70k. Perhaps in hindsight the roofline could have been rasied very slightly, bringing back a more noticeable break in the roofline, and restoring the much loved stadium seating.
I know, and understand to a degree, that LR are positioning this in a more upmarket sector to that of the current D3/4 but I cant comprehend who LR invite to their customer clinics as the seating is disasterious, and is so obvious, to anyone who actually has sat in the seats for any length of time. The 2nd/3rd row seating really does warrant some serious review and needs resolving asap.
Perhaps too, instead of the one Golden Retriever that LR show on their videos, they ought to contact owners of more dogs and of differing breeds. I have two huge Bernese Mountain Dogs, 10.5 stone each!!, and too be honest they don't fit in a RR, RRS, Evoke, and D5 Sport because the floor is too high, and the roof too low. It looks like my two pooches should fit in the D5 and certainly do fit within a D3/4. Similarly instead of the bogus skydivers putting very little equipment into the car they ought to see if they can accommodate divers (this is my hobby). Try accommodating 2 or 3 divers, plus all their gear, which is heavy and bulky into the boot. One good point where I believe the D5 will fare very well is that the lack of a substancial split tailgate of the D3/4 will make it so much easier putting/pushing heavy air cylinders in to the farthest reached area of the boot space. I certainly look forward to trying to put both pooches and dive gear, seperately!! as it'll never fit both together, into a D5 boot when LR Grange finally get a permanent D5 in their showroom.
So on the whole, if you don't need to have anyone <snip> sat in the 2nd and/or 3rd row seating the vehicle looks and feels great. Yes LR have taken the opportunity to move the vehicle more upmarket, and hopefully they might resolve (not make) a lot of the issues identified here, in the Defender replacement when/if it comes out.
I'm still not completetly sure if I would purchase a D5, and thankfully have another 2 years to decide and to compare competitor products before doing so. For a vehicle of this price all the ergonomics and fit/form should be way better than it actually is. Fit and function seemed to stop from the 2nd row seat backwards! Hopefully within two years LR may be able to resove the seating issues, and hopefully shoe in the SDV6 which is a stunning engine.
It's a shame, and after having 16 x Discoverys (and I used to work for LR) I was really looking forward to owning a D5.
This post has been edited by the site administration team
Height related comments removed following complaint
Last edited by Big Al on 25th Nov 2016 10:57 pm. Edited 3 times in total
25th Nov 2016 6:24 pm
fat bloke
Member Since: 07 Aug 2006
Location: OXFORD
Posts: 1257
Give yourselves a round of applause the reports are spot on to what i observed when i saw it..
25th Nov 2016 7:54 pm
Big Al
Member Since: 20 Jan 2005
Location: Wiltshire UK
Posts: 143
Update and a bit of an eye opener re middle row seating!
Spurred on after seeing and sitting in the new Disco 5 last friday, I measured the middle (2nd row) seats' vertical height from floor to the front edge of the seater bolster on my D4. Too my surprise I found the distance to be EXACTLY THE SAME!!! @ 350mm (which I still don't understand). My only conclusion is that the middle and rear row seats in the D5 seem to be thinner than those in the D3/4 and the Disco5 Sport, plus the fact that the seat bolster is very flat must be the reason why the seating position seems different.
The seat bolster in my D4 also seems to be flat but because its thicker, the seat seems to be more accommodating, and therefore more confortable. I sat in the middle row of my D4 (where I'd never sat here before!!!) and whilst understandably its nowhere near as comfortable as the front seats and it still didn't support the thigh (towards the underside of the knee) it was still noticeably better than what I experienced in the D5.
So given this finding I did a quick check of a few competitor products: the Audi Q7; BMW X5; Mercedes GLS. Basically forget any kind of legroom, thigh support or comfort in the former two, as these seem to be much worse than the D5 which I was grumbling about. However for note the Mercedes GLS had ample legroom and support, whereever I sat.
So in a nutshell, whilst I was hard on the LR designers who undertook the ergonomics of the 2nd and 3rd row seats for the D5 I still believe they could/should have done a much better job. However comparing to other competitors they're noticeable better than these, excluding the Merc GLS. However, still for a vehicle of this prestige and cost I still Would expect much better seats. I'm hoping the electric seat controls will have better interlocks (to stop children playing with them, and so to stop someone from being squished!!!). I still believe much simplified manual seat control would have been more suitable and are more efficinet than the sloooooowwwwwww electric seat movements.
I'm still holding out that in a 2 year timeframe LR might actually resolve the uncomfortable seating issue, and hopefully radically redeisgn the seating to be way better than it is currently in the D5. Hopefully then the 2nd and 3rd row seating will be comfortable in time for when I consider replacing my D4. If you think about it though LR are missing a trick since they're promoting the D5 towards the Chelsea tractor market, and they use there a mummy mobiles, so should really concentrate on ensuring that all passengers travel in comfort.
PS: If they need an external engineering consultant, with a critical eye for detail, ergonomics and aesthitics I'm available. And if they really want a challenge I can bring along all my dive kit and pooches to stuff in the boot.
The photos below is just me in a little of my kit, often theres much more, and also at least another dive buddy joins me. Thats a lot of dive kit in the boot.
Note the pooches (ones still a puppy!!) in the boot of a load D5 Sport, when mine was in for service, they weren't impressed at were more than a little cramped!!!
28th Nov 2016 6:13 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Very nice dogs! 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
28th Nov 2016 6:33 pm
Big Al
Member Since: 20 Jan 2005
Location: Wiltshire UK
Posts: 143
Thanks, that the puppy in the foreground, not so small now.
The big one is obscured, and behind him. They're both fully grown now at 10.5 stone each, and the "puppy" is currently sat on me!!!
28th Nov 2016 6:39 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
28th Nov 2016 6:41 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
I've been to see one for myself today and I'm just leaving the dealer now.
It's a nice enough car, though it's biggest problem is probably it's name. If it hadn't set the expectations so high, by calling it "Discovery", or even "Land Rover", it might not have disappointed like this. It is not a Discovery replacement. Think more "bloated Disco Sport".
I did spend over an hour with it, hoping it might grow on me, but it didn't. However, parked side by side with it, the FFRR started to look rather nice and the, much slimmer, Disco Sport looked positively handsome 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
29th Nov 2016 7:31 pm
Dannyson
Member Since: 14 Oct 2014
Location: Newquay, Cornwall
Posts: 820
Oh dear... where do we go from here? - wait for a Defender? (which could be too much Discovery less..... if you get my drift... too agricultural....)....Its a nightmare and one reason I cannot go into a 'penny arcade'.... I just can't deal with too much change......... I'll get my coat.... 2016MY Discovery HSE - Black
2009MY Toyota Land Cruiser (Lc4) - Black
29th Nov 2016 10:47 pm
Robse
Member Since: 10 Jun 2014
Location: Cambridgeshire
Posts: 498
Red Merle wrote:
I've been to see one for myself today and I'm just leaving the dealer now.
It's a nice enough car, though it's biggest problem is probably it's name. If it hadn't set the expectations so high, by calling it "Discovery", or even "Land Rover", it might not have disappointed like this. It is not a Discovery replacement. Think more "bloated Disco Sport".
I did spend over an hour with it, hoping it might grow on me, but it didn't. However, parked side by side with it, the FFRR started to look rather nice and the, much slimmer, Disco Sport looked positively handsome
So please do tell. What is it that it hasn't got or doesn't do that stops it being a Discovery ?Velar MY18 D180 S Narvik
Discovery MY2015 3.0 SDV6 SE Corris - Gone
29th Nov 2016 11:33 pm
Dannyson
Member Since: 14 Oct 2014
Location: Newquay, Cornwall
Posts: 820
goodness!.... where does one start....?2016MY Discovery HSE - Black
2009MY Toyota Land Cruiser (Lc4) - Black
29th Nov 2016 11:40 pm
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
For me that's easy to answer...
Style & provide a permagrin. 2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
29th Nov 2016 11:45 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Robse wrote:
Red Merle wrote:
I've been to see one for myself today and I'm just leaving the dealer now.
It's a nice enough car, though it's biggest problem is probably it's name. If it hadn't set the expectations so high, by calling it "Discovery", or even "Land Rover", it might not have disappointed like this. It is not a Discovery replacement. Think more "bloated Disco Sport".
I did spend over an hour with it, hoping it might grow on me, but it didn't. However, parked side by side with it, the FFRR started to look rather nice and the, much slimmer, Disco Sport looked positively handsome
So please do tell. What is it that it hasn't got or doesn't do that stops it being a Discovery ?
That's a really good question!
Ever since I drove a Disco 1, around 2000, all Discos have shared a huge number of common features (I won't list them all again here!) but, suffice it to say, it was a practical working car, with spacious and airy interior, first and foremost. It was a modern take on the original Land Rover. Over the years, the frankly rubbish handling of the D1 gradually got better, as did the performance and the car got nicer and nicer inside BUT the usefulness was never compromised before now.
I'm not blind to its "faults". While much smoother and more car like than many Far East 4x4's, it was still essentially a working farm tool and there's no disguising that in the way that it drives; I don't care though, it's part of why I like it! Unfortunately, to many trying a D4 for the first time, having ventured out of their anaemic German saloon cars for probably the very first time, it was hard to "get it" and the drive still felt old fashioned - I understand that.
What we have in the D5 is a over sized and over styled modern 7 seat estate/MPV car as a starting point, that's been adapted to make it a little bit Land Rover like. Those that have never driven anything more adventurous than a 5 Series should feel instantly at home.
What we've lost is the upright command driving position, a view down onto the corners of the bonnet, a distinctive shape, the light and airy interior, the stadium seating, the low waistline, the ability to comfortably rest an elbow on the window sill, a proper tailgate, 6" of headroom from the far end of the loading bay, rear doors that you can still open in a tight space, M+S tyres as standard fitment (very telling, that one!), a roof designed with fitting and using a roof rack in mind and even a bonnet that's square flat and practical to put your laptop and paperwork on and work at on a nice day when literally "out in the field"!
If Land Rover had made it a separate range I could have understood. But losing the Discovery to make way for a bigger Evoque is unforgivable 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
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My only conclusion is that the middle and rear row seats in the D5 seem to be thinner than those in the D3/4 and the Disco5 Sport, plus the fact that the seat bolster is very flat must be the reason why the seating position seems different.
I'll get my coat.... 
