Member Since: 09 Mar 2007
Location: hants
Posts: 2144
If it's anything is a vfm 7 seat range rover
LR happy to trade on discovery brand and they don't give a monkeys as long as it sellsIllegitimi Non Carborundum
16th Dec 2016 10:04 am
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13556
Lost for Words wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
LfW - the new Discovery is what the market wants, apparently. What the market wants, the market gets because the market decides and the market is goooood.
Ahh, but it is LR's judgement of what the market wants and which part it should/can serve. They won't always get it spot on, though everyone tries to tell us they do.
Judging by the increasing sales figures of the latest models compared to the old models, I think JLR have probably got it figured pretty well. The D4 was selling about 50k a year. The original RRS was selling about 50k a year. FL2 was selling about 50k units a year. Ewok is selling over 100k units a year.
The new RRS is around 90k units a year. The new RRS got similar "I don't like it" comments from many over in RRSport just as the D5 is hereabouts. I have no doubts that the D5 will sell very well indeed - more so than the D4 ever did.
For a company, increasing sales by that sort of % is kind of what they're about, really. Selling the same old thing to a core "traditional" market isn't. You, and others, may not like the D5 because it doesn't meet your particular needs, but the market for the new type of LR product is bigger than the market for the old. If you were LR, which market would you choose to serve?
LR will bring out the "all new Defender". It won't appeal to Deafener owners. It will sell like hot cakes to people who want "off road cool". The dirty-rag brigade will cry in to their beers and LR will laugh all the way to the bank.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
2012 RRS SDV6
2008 RRS TDV8
"When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die! You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they were always going to have to do from the very beginning: SIT DOWN AND TALK!"
16th Dec 2016 3:10 pm
tayaste
Member Since: 15 May 2013
Location: Chester
Posts: 7633
NoDo$h wrote:
The Dundonian wrote:
Bill Wright wrote:
I'm getting a D5 because (in no particular order) drum roll :
3. The off roading that I do is mainly for collecting my logs with the trailer, parking at Point to Point and for dogging in and shoot maintenance in the summer, so damage to the super rounded body is not a problem.
I was planning on posting a helpful pictorial guide to show the difference between dogging-in and dogging in.
Unfortunately my wife walked in as I hit enter in the Google image search. Has anyone got a spare bed for next week? I won't need it for the next couple of nights as this hospital bed is very comfy and the soup is delicious.
16th Dec 2016 3:21 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
RRSTDV8 wrote:
Lost for Words wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
LfW - the new Discovery is what the market wants, apparently. What the market wants, the market gets because the market decides and the market is goooood.
Ahh, but it is LR's judgement of what the market wants and which part it should/can serve. They won't always get it spot on, though everyone tries to tell us they do.
Judging by the increasing sales figures of the latest models compared to the old models, I think JLR have probably got it figured pretty well. The D4 was selling about 50k a year. The original RRS was selling about 50k a year. FL2 was selling about 50k units a year. Ewok is selling over 100k units a year.
The new RRS is around 90k units a year. The new RRS got similar "I don't like it" comments from many over in RRSport just as the D5 is hereabouts. I have no doubts that the D5 will sell very well indeed - more so than the D4 ever did.
For a company, increasing sales by that sort of % is kind of what they're about, really. Selling the same old thing to a core "traditional" market isn't. You, and others, may not like the D5 because it doesn't meet your particular needs, but the market for the new type of LR product is bigger than the market for the old. If you were LR, which market would you choose to serve?
LR will bring out the "all new Defender". It won't appeal to Deafener owners. It will sell like hot cakes to people who want "off road cool". The dirty-rag brigade will cry in to their beers and LR will laugh all the way to the bank.
But, how long will this stuff continue to "sell like hot cakes", as the brand becomes more and more main stream (ie: trashed)?
To give you an instance, I took out a new FFRR on test drive a month or so before buying my current D4. Yes, I seriously considered it. It was very nice but, while the car itself wasn't as useful as the Disco by a long shot (which was disappointing), did I really want to commit so much money to a brand that could be found on a BMW 3 Series competitor (Evoque), or parked outside a unisex hairdresser's (Evoque convertible)? Erm, nope. Prestige brand trashed.
I may buy another used D4, if I need to, but they've lost me as a customer for anything new of theirs.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
Indeed - there is always the danger of milking the life out of the cash cow!
RRSTDV8 wrote:
Lost for Words wrote:
RRSTDV8 wrote:
LfW - the new Discovery is what the market wants, apparently. What the market wants, the market gets because the market decides and the market is goooood.
Ahh, but it is LR's judgement of what the market wants and which part it should/can serve. They won't always get it spot on, though everyone tries to tell us they do.
Judging by the increasing sales figures of the latest models compared to the old models, I think JLR have probably got it figured pretty well. The D4 was selling about 50k a year. The original RRS was selling about 50k a year. FL2 was selling about 50k units a year. Ewok is selling over 100k units a year.
The new RRS is around 90k units a year. The new RRS got similar "I don't like it" comments from many over in RRSport just as the D5 is hereabouts. I have no doubts that the D5 will sell very well indeed - more so than the D4 ever did.
None of which I dispute, but there are other factors to apply to the figures. Each car is different and the idea is to spread your range to capture as many people as possible, so the success of one car is a reason to move another towards it, but it does not dictate that the perfect decision is something just like that other car. One RRS may sell 90k, but two RRSs won't sell 180k, so the presence of vehicles selling well at that end of the market is not just a one sided premise.
I think it's important to make the distinction between high sales, higher sales and highest possible sales.
Quote:
For a company, increasing sales by that sort of % is kind of what they're about, really. Selling the same old thing to a core "traditional" market isn't. You, and others, may not like the D5 because it doesn't meet your particular needs, but the market for the new type of LR product is bigger than the market for the old. If you were LR, which market would you choose to serve?
Of course it is, but I argue not that they should sell less or should not meet that market. The key issue is in your question of which market to serve - why need it be one or the other? In reality, there is no such clear line, but a scale of different people wanting different things. My argument is purely that they could venture into the traditional market a bit more without harming their Chelsea tractor one by more than they'd gain.
Quote:
LR will bring out the "all new Defender". It won't appeal to Deafener owners. It will sell like hot cakes to people who want "off road cool". The dirty-rag brigade will cry in to their beers and LR will laugh all the way to the bank.
Yep, and I fear it might pass over us too. LR have left themselves a very large range to cover for the new Defender - I hope it doesn't end up being a poor compromise for all. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
Freelander 2 2007 HSE Manual Tambora Flame
Previous: FL2 56 reg SE Manual Black (written off )
Disco 3 06 reg B7S Manual Rimini Red
Disco 2 TD5 Y reg ES Manual Blue - Chipped
Several Discovery 300 TDis
16th Dec 2016 4:36 pm
ruggedpeak
Member Since: 10 Jun 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 1625
Exactly. They have the full spectrum of Waitrose wagons for all sizes and wallets. What they need to remember is a big chunk of that premium value (the extra you pay just for the badge) is underpinned by us dinosaurs doing real practical stuff with our Land Rovers since 1948, not Daniel Craig poncing about at celebrity launches. Any car company can pay a celeb to attract the gullible end of the market. 70 years of positive brand messages largely generated by others is much harder to get and keep getting.Tony
Club RLD Wheel Protector & Sump Guard
Club 4x4 Info activated
16th Dec 2016 4:47 pm
jimbg
Member Since: 19 Apr 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 478
RM, LFW, RP you love your D3's and D4's but Land Rover are after the mass market now .
They will have to continually adapt to ensure they are making products for that market, but the same is true for any manufacturer for almost any product.
Having worked ( thankfully now retired ) in the electronics industry I am well aware of the fickleness of the market.
You may think they have got it wrong, but the pre-orders for the D5 are I am told through the roof.
If you are disappointed in the D5 for your particular needs then you need to look elsewhere or wait to see what the new Defender brings.
You can be sure Land Rover knew what they were doing and anticipated disappointing a small segment of their Discovery base.
16th Dec 2016 5:51 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
Apparently LR know nothing which is why their order book has been bursting at the seems for the last few years. Business is business
I'm quite happy to have a Waitrose wagon, it'll look the dogs danglies on my drive, I'm sure I'll be the envy of my neighbours, I don't want to be out done by their Orange Mokka. And because I'm buying one I will now need to find a private school for the kids I don't have and be very cautious when I take them to pony club as it will get stuck in a puddle as it's not a competent off road vehicle and can't be rescued because it has no recovery points. Have I covered everything for a stereotypical D5 owner?
The above is said in jest, you either love it or loathe it. Each to their own, we just need to trust LRs judgement. It may comeback to bite them who knows 23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
16th Dec 2016 6:45 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Jimbg: Who has told you that "D5 sales are through the roof"? You'd certainly need to be a very honest salesperson to say otherwise if it isn't the case.
Have they given you supporting evidence? (Genuine question)2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
16th Dec 2016 6:46 pm
crews control
Member Since: 18 Mar 2007
Location: Dorset
Posts: 5011
Either way... initial orders are irrelevant, it's how sales perform long term that really matters. There will always be a large number of people that want to have something new, but fashion is a fickle master.
2005 D3 HSE 2011 D4 Landmark 2016 D4 HSE Lux
2017 Ford Tourneo VR46
Club Waitomo
16th Dec 2016 6:52 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
It would be the first new LR that hadn't.
I've seen my salesmans list, he as 25-30 alone, I think I'm about 15th in their "que"23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
16th Dec 2016 6:53 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14417
Just come back from Guy Salmon in Bristol. They have taken 16 orders today and I'm sure plenty more tonight but not one from me. It just doen't meet my needs, so it looks like it will be a big Merc for me - GL or G wagon tbc.
The local sales guys were very good, but there was one guy direct from LR who was so arrogant that even if I was going to order one, I wouldn't have! Great shredded pork burgers though.D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
16th Dec 2016 7:26 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
The LR people were a bit up themselves, I just dealt with my dealer on my night, I was in full work gear and LR didn't even bother to acknowledge me.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
16th Dec 2016 7:36 pm
DSL Keeper of the wheelie bin
Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 73086
Fair few GLs around me down sauff, they do look nice. Now LR's put the price up at that level it's deffo an alternative.
16th Dec 2016 7:36 pm
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
crews control wrote:
Either way... initial orders are irrelevant, it's how sales perform long term that really matters. There will always be a large number of people that want to have something new, but fashion is a fickle master.
That's true. Back in the Middle Ages, when the Rover SD1 was launched, you couldn't get hold of one for love nor money. Waiting lists were off the chart and if you were lucky enough to get a build slot within a reasonable time, discounts were non existent. But, within two years, you couldn't give them away!
Okay, it's not a perfect analogy; the SD1 was a radical and interesting design at launch, while the Disco 5 will be built to a much higher standard than the SD1 ever was. Let's wait and see...2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: 2 x FL2 as “second” cars 🙄
2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!)
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
which is why their order book has been bursting at the seems for the last few years. Business is business
