Member Since: 30 Apr 2019
Location: Nice
Posts: 94
Wheel alignment - pull to the right when accelrating
Hi Guys,
After bushings replacement (rear ones at front wheels) and getting wheels aligned, following has been discovered.
The bushings are LR original, reinforced ones.
Car goes:
- straight when no acceleration is applied or breaking,
- gets to the right when accelerating even just a bit is enough.
Further tests shown that having car stopped with straight wheels, the driving wheel turns itself a bit to the right the moment any acceleration is applied. It is couple of degrees and equals what needs to be applied to the left to keep the car straight when driving.
Spoke with my LR specialist and he has seen it for the first time outside of RR supercharged when was hammered hard, but it was happening only then and not with normal acceleration. LR officially said that such RR "behavior" is normal when at extreme acceleration, but certainly this does not apply to normal drive as in my case.
Some reading brought me to believe that at the time when wheel alignment was set, car wasn't put into "Tight tolerance mode" as per workshop manual. I wasn't aware of it before and so expect wheel alignment specialist wasn't. With that said, tank was full.
Any ideas at what to look at to get the problem fixed?
Thanks in advance.[/quote]
26th Aug 2019 2:56 pm
M3bobby
Member Since: 21 May 2018
Location: Sleaford, LINCS.
Posts: 857
Have you got the same brand and model of tyre on both wheels? Someone on the RRS forum had the same sized tyres from 2 different manufacturers on the front, same issue but when he took them off and compared them side by side, there was a substantial difference in diameter.
2016 Disco 4 SE Tech
2019 Fiesta ST3
2021 GBS Zero
28th Aug 2019 7:19 am
Tricuspid
Member Since: 13 Aug 2019
Location: Scotland
Posts: 13
Bushes.
Misalignment or mismatched tyres would cause it to pull to one side while at constant speed. When you brake or accelerate it puts a force on the suspension arms, which are designed to move a small amount by use of rubber bushes. Because of the weight of the car, and the size of the wheel/tyre the force can be quite substantial. If one bush is past it's best it will move more than the others, hence the pulling to one side.
28th Aug 2019 7:09 pm
lrovy
Member Since: 30 Apr 2019
Location: Nice
Posts: 94
Many thanks to all of you. Another inspection should be done on Monday.
Tires have been checked and wheels swapped already (back with front) - same effect.
Suspension has been shake-tested already and the guy didn't find anything.
Might end up at stealership if non-stealership LR specialist wouldn't find the culprit.
Thanks again! I'll keep you posted with progress and once will find my suspension gremlin.
I would get the tracking checked again, if ok then look at wheel bearing or CV joint.
Flack
31st Aug 2019 11:53 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8235
Did you have 4 wheel alignment done?-not just the fronts. A certificate is usually issued when 4 wheel alignment is done, if you have it post a photo to show us the settings.
Where the bushes tightened up while the wheels where at normal height and not with the wheels hanging down at max height?It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
31st Aug 2019 4:42 pm
lrovy
Member Since: 30 Apr 2019
Location: Nice
Posts: 94
@M3DPO - I'll get the photo of the report - need to find it tomorrow.
Since I'm relatively fresh in LR world (coming from bimmer) I've had no idea that there's "tight" setting and learnt about it only once started to research the problem and going through workshop manual (yep, I do RTFM, late but still ).
I'm pretty sure the alignment was done with all wheels hanging happily - haven't seen it as had to drop off the car and pick it up later due to some meetings I had to have in the meantime.
So car was for 99.999% in normal user mode (no tight mode) and it was certainly approached by the guy as any other car (as it is generic wheel alignment specialist, though have heard he did number of LRs and is best in town). I used his service for bimmer for years and was super happy.
@Flack - thanks - yeah it is at my LR guy who did bushings replacement earlier and should have some update tomorrow (hopefully fixed by then).
3rd Sep 2019 10:06 pm
M3bobby
Member Since: 21 May 2018
Location: Sleaford, LINCS.
Posts: 857
When you say all 4 wheels hanging happily, you don’t mean dangling in the air while it’s on a 2 post ramp? It should be aligned with weight on the wheels at normal road height (tight tolerance).
4th Sep 2019 8:07 am
lrovy
Member Since: 30 Apr 2019
Location: Nice
Posts: 94
Can adjustments be done without lifting the car? Measurements, I understand, but adjustments? Are the screws (not sure what is there) strong enough to pull/push things whilst car is on the wheels?
I'm sorry for silly questions - trying to understand it well enough to be able to talk with mechanic, as they certainly have their habits and if he tells me lies I'd need to know on the spot.
About the wheels in the air - it is my assumption as said earlier, I had to drop off the car and run and only pick it up later. Next time I'll wait and see what/how they do it.
4th Sep 2019 10:14 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8235
The car must be set at normal height, tight tolerance mode set if possible but is not essential for alignment to be done and all four wheels must be checked not just the front.
After the new arms have been fitted they must be set and finally tightened with the wheels at normal road height not dangling down with car off the ground, your fitter should know this if he is competent and familiar with D3/4.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
adjustments must be done with wheels bearing the weight. the adjusters are meant to be up to the job, but mine weren't .... so I ended up re-fitting the originals. garage were good about it and didn't charge extra for re-doing the alignments.
if you did have car lifted with no weight on the wheels, you should drive it around a bit to get the suspension to settle in it's natural position before having adjustment done..
Dean
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5th Sep 2019 8:03 am
M3bobby
Member Since: 21 May 2018
Location: Sleaford, LINCS.
Posts: 857
Usually the car should be adjusted on sliders, the car will sit on these to have the correct loading applied but allow the wheels the freedom of movement when the bolts are adjusted. Trying to adjust the bolts without these runs thevrisk of the Cam washers being ripped off the bolts/nuts.
5th Sep 2019 12:26 pm
lrovy
Member Since: 30 Apr 2019
Location: Nice
Posts: 94
@M3bobby - this is what I've heard today from the guy - they lift it the car/wheels by putting support under the "arms" next to wheels - not sure about which exact point he was talking about, but it was not by lifting the frame/body by just wheels.
He gave me full logical explanation on why, that wheels need to be free to move, but he keeps the load on the suspension.
With that said it was news to him to put car into "tight mode".
What we've also spotted is that numbers do not make sense as are really different between LHD and RHD whilst one could expect that at most are mirrored.
See LH/RH Camber in LHD - how different it is rom RHD and similar to LH/RH castor between LHD and RHD - it is not a mirror it is completely different setting. (see picture)
Click image to enlarge
Is this a documentation bug or correct set of values?
Do you guys know what exactly does "Tight tolerance mode"? Workshop manual doesn't talk about it (search for that wording doesn't bring up any explanation - too many pages to manually read (tried with "tight tolerance", "tolerance mode").
5th Sep 2019 7:39 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8235
I don’t know the exact timings of normal mode or tight mode, but this is the principle, the level of the car suspension is checked by the BCM every 3 minutes for example when in normal mode, in tight mode it is checked every few seconds for example, if left in TM it will wear components out quickly this is why it should only be used for set up or diagnostic reasons.
When you hear the car fart, yes fart usually shortly after parking up it is self levelling by releasing air from the suspension air bag that is high to level the car up.
Using TM during wheel alignment means all wheels are at the same height from the body during set up.
The reason for the differences in LHD and RHD is the fact RHD are designed to steer slightly to the left and LHD are designed to steer slightly to the right, try taking your hands off the steering wheel on a straight road and you will see what I mean, it’s for safety.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
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