DISCO4.COM - View topic - Scope for haggling?

ArmitageShanks

Member Since: 03 Oct 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 85

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Adriatic Blue

Scope for haggling?

Afternoon all...

I'm in the market for a used approved 2-3 year HSE Luxury D5 with maybe 15-20k miles on the clock. They seem to come in around £43-45k. Could anyone familiar with buying from main dealers and familiar with the state of the market right now advise whether or not I should be expecting to get much off the advertised price by haggling? Thanks in advance...

5th Sep 2020 3:41 pm

Moo
D3 Decade

Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14389

2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Zambezi Silver

Don't discount new car deals as well. There are some crackers around. Also, have a look on Carwow.

New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)

Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)

Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)

No longer the Old Buses original owner

231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control

5th Sep 2020 6:22 pm

G3Z

Member Since: 16 Dec 2018
Location: South Wales
Posts: 558

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 GS Manual Zambezi Silver

As above, new cars have some cracking deals at the moment. New cars can actually work out cheaper with the discounts and the low APR on new. The used car APR rates are extortionate to help push people towards new. Defender 110 2.4 TDCi Utility Station Wagon.

2007 Disco 3 GS TDV6 Manual
200,000+ mile club 😎

5th Sep 2020 8:52 pm

John C

Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Cairns Blue

I agree. Bought a new HSE a couple of weeks back and it’s awesome. Have a look at new stock HSE... many have extras on to take them to a higher spec and it may be that the HSEL doesn’t actually have all the toys you want. Also not not convinced and HSEL holds value better than an HSE. You will love it. I went for for the SDV6 - superb machine’ 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years

5th Sep 2020 8:59 pm

ArmitageShanks

Member Since: 03 Oct 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 85

I wouldn't be using credit - it'd be a cash purchase. Does that change anything?

5th Sep 2020 9:15 pm

lard

Member Since: 07 Jul 2018
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 143

2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Tonga Green

I'd always suggest to pay at least the deposit on a credit card (then pay of your card with the cash) - that way you are covered by financial ombudsman down the line, the credit card company will be equally liable under sale of goods act if you get nowhere with the dealer over warranty dispute, fit for purpose, satisfactory quality e.t.c in the future....

5th Sep 2020 9:21 pm

Moo
D3 Decade

Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14389

Might do. I've always been a cash buyer, but money is so cheap now that I've switched to PCP and invested what I would have spent into stocks and my pension. I'd still look at what deals you can get as a cash buyer. Again, Car Wow is a good test of what deals are available. New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)

Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)

Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)

No longer the Old Buses original owner

231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control

5th Sep 2020 9:22 pm

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23825

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini Black

ArmitageShanks wrote:
I wouldn't be using credit - it'd be a cash purchase. Does that change anything?

I got a £4K discount on my used FFRR by taking the LR finance. Two months later I refinanced with a much lower APR.

No way would I tie up £50k+ on a depreciating asset, especially a diesel. I like having the two opt outs I get with a pcp. Each to their own though.

2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)

5th Sep 2020 9:32 pm

ArmitageShanks

Member Since: 03 Oct 2010
Location: Bristol
Posts: 85

I've tried carwow and, for a cash purchase, I'm looking at £64k for a brand new HSE Luxury with no additional bells and whistles versus ~£44k for something a couple of years old with ~20k miles on the clock and probably some additional bells and whistles such as 360 camera and electric tow bar.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that I could afford either, the question then becomes what's the total cost of ownership.

Let's say I sell in 3 years time, the new-when-purchased car will likely be worth about £35k meaning it would've cost me £29k over 3 years in depreciation.

Conversely, what would the car that was 2 years old and cost £44k when I bought it be worth? A bit of poking about on Autotrader makes me estimate ~£27k meaning it would've cost me £17k over 3 years in depreciation.

Put another way, it's £4k extra per year over 3 years for a new car versus a 2 year old car but I do get the benefit of the warranty if I buy new, plus anything else I can persuade them to throw in.

Does anyone see any significant flaws in my calculations?

Thanks!

8th Sep 2020 11:43 pm

John C

Member Since: 28 Aug 2007
Location: East Yorkshire
Posts: 3292

I had similar maths but thought a new stock HSE was better value than a new HSE L. I also went cash and considered what the maths would look like at 1 and 2 years, primarily because of the flexibility - either used prices start tanking or I could switch to a decent large electric (Rivian or Hybrid Discovery) if I needed to and the tax breaks of running one as a company car. I realise finance protects those residuals, but the world seems an odd place to be making long term decisions on cars at the moment and I preferred the simplicity and flexibility. 2020 SDV6 D5 HSE, Carpathian Grey +
2022 Tesla Model Y LR... almost Carpathian Grey
Previously : 2005 TDV6 SE Auto, Cairns Blue (288K) - ours for 16 years

9th Sep 2020 5:11 am

Gary_P

Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1664

2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Corris Grey

Armitage Shanks.
Not a flaw in your thinking but another strand. There is the opportunity loss of spending the xtra £20k on new. You could do something else with that. Interest rates are low at present , at 1% it’s £600 over 3 years, but you might win the premium bonds or have something else you want to do with the money. New cars cost has always been higher than second hand in terms of depreciation. The main reason to buy new is ; to get something you can’t get second hand ( not a problem in this case by the sound of it), for peace of mind (warranty) and because you want something no one else has driven. In my case there were no EU6 cars for sale second hand.
A few other trains of thought is that you may be able to buy a cheaper service plan with a new car. When I bought mine that saved me over £2000 in servicing costs in 5 years by my reckoning. You would likely have the advantage of a new for old replacement on your insurance in the first year too (if your policy does that - mine did). If you are interested in gap insurance (not finance gap, but value gap should the car be written off, that would cost a bit more too withe the higher value car. It is also likely that maintenance costs will be higher on the older car (tyres replaced sooner, brakes, battery etc) . I would say a conservative estimate over 3 years would be £1500 - £2000.
Just my thoughts and some of the things I considered. Gary
-------------------------------------------

Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY

9th Sep 2020 7:57 am

waterbuoy

Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2921

2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Stornoway Grey

ArmitageShanks wrote:
Put another way, it's £4k extra per year over 3 years for a new car versus a 2 year old car but I do get the benefit of the warranty if I buy new, plus anything else I can persuade them to throw in.

Does anyone see any significant flaws in my calculations?

No flaws in your calculations at all but, as with many things relating to cars (and tools etc), it is definitely a case of 'man maths' being relevant here. If you were to follow the reasoning to it's logical conclusion you might end up buying a second hand vehicle at the point where the depreciation curve begins to flatten out.

I've never bought a new car - the closest was a 2-year old LR vehicle that they had used at Solihull for 'bumbling' visitors - it was one of very few automatic D1s and had less thean 3k on the clock. This is primarily because I can usually find many other things to spend my money on than the (potentially) short-lived satisfaction of owning a brand new car. My father used to change his car every 3 years so I have an idea what it feels like - in reality it is not that different from collecting an almost new vehicle from a main dealer. When we collected SWMBO's D4 the treatment was superb - car was sat at front of showroom with doors open ready to drive out, chocs and flowers for her, full demonstration drive, umbrellas and seat covers etc. If it hadn't been for the number plate and odometer it would have been the same as a new car experience.

Everybody's personal circumstances are different. If I had the money (or could afford it) then now would probably be a good time to buy a new car, especially a D5 as their prioces seem to be getting hammered for a variety of reasons. However, that simply does not suit our circumstances - we could invest the money in our business or, as is the case at present, use it to help us get through the s**tstorm that is Covid. Others might put the funds towards a four-wheeled toy such as a convertible or classic car, whilst others may book a holiday etc.

I realise this is probably not of any help at all but, similarly, it is a rather open ended question for which there will be many different answers depensing on one's personal circumstances and perspective. At the end of the day you have to do what is right for you, and what you feel comfortable with. Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)

9th Sep 2020 8:24 am

LT

Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23825

My main concern is the demonisation of Diesel engined vehicles. With a PCP I have the two safety nets of Voluntary Termination and GFV.

I also don’t like tying up large (to me) amounts of capital in a depreciating asset. 2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
2010 D4 HSE (A bit bling)-GONE
2014 D4 HSE (Almost too bling)-GONE
2015 D4 HSE (A heated what?)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Written Off)-GONE
2016 D4 Landmark (Surely the last!) PD1881 rims-GONE
2017 FFRR SDV8 Autobiography (now semi-retired)

9th Sep 2020 8:25 am

Farmer Chalk

Member Since: 06 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4195

2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Tangiers Orange

I’ve done the same...my circumstances are that I do relatively high miles and it’s always an issue determining when is the best time to chop in my car for its replacement...originally I started with a cash purchase of a HSE Luxury but it’s a huge gamble trying to dictate the best change over time..
So for the last few cars I have upgraded but on pcp deals....that way I know my exact monthly expenditure which is commensurate with my car allowance etc etc...
Recently did a voluntary return on my high mileage RRS and replaced it with an SVR.... no brainier for me as I’m not going to keep it forever...simple changeover and no grief....!

9th Sep 2020 9:21 am