Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
Bad Engine Run after Rebuild
Hey guys,
i rebuilt a 3.0D GEN2 Engine.
The Engine had a timing belt failure. I bought the car with it.
I disassembled everything, refreshed the longblock with new main/rod bearings & piston rings (installed is a stock crankshaft, no copy), head gaskets & bolts, refreshed heads etc.
Now the engine runs really rough! The car vibrates a little bit, the engine is sluggish and is nailing really really hard). I tought it could be the injectors and changed them with a second set i had in stock, still the same behaviour.
I tested compression (cold, 0°C), 20-22 Bar on all cylinders. Seemed a bit low to me but due to the almost equal values on all cylinders i thought this would be fine.
I need to say, that the spocket on the crankshaft which drives the fuel pump was twisted/disorted about 90°. I wondered, because this happend not while disassembly, it was happend long before. I installed a new spocket, all perfect on timing now. To be sure i checked today again all timings and they are on point.
Anybody got a idea? I could even provide you with videos of idle.
20th Dec 2022 7:18 am
DN D3 Decade
Member Since: 23 Jun 2006
Location: W.London.
Posts: 2345
Comparing the timing belt run to my 2.7, the belt run on the left camshaft (viewed from front) looks wrong to me, the tensioner should be a bit higher. Did you rotate the tensioner anti clockwise to tension the belt ? Does the belt cover fit over the belt as it is ? I may be wrong of course, as I have not had cause to work on a 3.0 engine.
D3 owned from new, P017 brake recall, BAS FBHIC, new FBH, LR013487 oil pump, new water pump. RRS front lower suspension arms. New suspension compressor/ relay. New Denso alternator. CuNifer rear brake pipes. New GKN rear propshaft. New HPFP belt & tensioner. New A/C Condenser.NO WARRANTY for many many years.
20th Dec 2022 10:57 am
rrhool
Member Since: 28 Aug 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4523
Which belt broke? The front belt for the cams, or the rear belt for the HP fuel pump?
If the front belt broke, there would be damage to the valves/followers/cams. You don't say what you did to the cylinder heads?Richard
D3 SE 2007. Triumph 2.5Pi 1973. Ferguson TEA20 1948.
Discovery 2 4.0 ES 2001- Gone
Discovery 1 300Tdi ES '95 - Gone
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20th Dec 2022 11:19 am
Fischirian
Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
DN wrote:
Comparing the timing belt run to my 2.7, the belt run on the left camshaft (viewed from front) looks wrong to me, the tensioner should be a bit higher. Did you rotate the tensioner anti clockwise to tension the belt ? Does the belt cover fit over the belt as it is ? I may be wrong of course, as I have not had cause to work on a 3.0 engine.
Thanks mate.
To be honest it`s a Jaguary XF from 2017 with Gen2 Engine but in the Jaguary Forums nobody seems to know how a engine works Land Rover forums are much better...
I´m pretty sure its right. I already disassembled the front cover to check the timings and they are on point
20th Dec 2022 1:04 pm
Fischirian
Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
rrhool wrote:
Which belt broke? The front belt for the cams, or the rear belt for the HP fuel pump?
If the front belt broke, there would be damage to the valves/followers/cams. You don't say what you did to the cylinder heads?
Hey mate,
yeah the front timing gear broke...
On the left head the exhaust valves were slightly bent, i installed new valves. Followers were of course broken and were replaced as well the hyros, valv seals etc.
Heads are complete sealed, i tested them. Pistons were even fine, otherwise i wouldn`t have the same compression on all 6 cylinders i think
20th Dec 2022 1:06 pm
rrhool
Member Since: 28 Aug 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4523
If it's had a valve strike, I wonder if one of the cams has a twist?Richard
D3 SE 2007. Triumph 2.5Pi 1973. Ferguson TEA20 1948.
Discovery 2 4.0 ES 2001- Gone
Discovery 1 300Tdi ES '95 - Gone
Range Rover Classic '79 - Gone
20th Dec 2022 3:04 pm
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 769
upload the video of it running rough. Did you have any codes on the ECU ?
20th Dec 2022 4:40 pm
Fischirian
Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
rrhool wrote:
If it's had a valve strike, I wonder if one of the cams has a twist?
Yeah you are right. I replaced the exhaust cam of the left head because it was damaged due to the broken followers. I am pretty sure the other 3 cams had no twist in it.
20th Dec 2022 10:09 pm
Fischirian
Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
jenseneverest wrote:
upload the video of it running rough. Did you have any codes on the ECU ?
I attached the Video.
Don‘t worry about the light smoke over the injectors on the right head. Comes from coolant and diesel because right before the Video i checked Timings (had the cam covers off).
No fault codes
20th Dec 2022 10:11 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14417
I confused there for a minute. This is in a Jag not D4. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
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20th Dec 2022 11:12 pm
jenseneverest
Member Since: 12 Jun 2017
Location: somewhere
Posts: 769
Fischirian wrote:
I attached the Video.
Don‘t worry about the light smoke over the injectors on the right head. Comes from coolant and diesel because right before the Video i checked Timings (had the cam covers off).
No fault codes
Yes it is running rough
Unfortunately the video doesn't really help, there is a real need to see and hear these things yourself.
At one point i thought i could hear a popping sound from the air intake side???, but as i said it is hard to be sure just from a video.
I take it you did NOT replace the pistons or the conrods ?
A cracked piston sometimes only manifests or opens up the crack when the engine gets to temperature.
The other thing that worries me is a bent conrod.... but your compression looks to be fairly even across the cylinders. You could have a quick look at big end bearings for any unusual wear now you have the motor back out.....
Other than it being a mechanical issue, then you would have to look at the fuel side of things.
Keep us updated as to how you get on, good luck
21st Dec 2022 10:44 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20842
Fischirian wrote:
rrhool wrote:
If it's had a valve strike, I wonder if one of the cams has a twist?
Yeah you are right. I replaced the exhaust cam of the left head because it was damaged due to the broken followers. I am pretty sure the other 3 cams had no twist in it.
The cam lobes spin on these. I'll put good money on it there are a couple spun on another cam My D3 Build Thread
Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
Moo wrote:
I confused there for a minute. This is in a Jag not D4.
Hey Moo, yes you are right.
In the Jaguary Forum is not that technical understanding. I made very good experiences here and due to it is the same engine as in Range Rovers i think this can be good content for the forum.
21st Dec 2022 9:36 pm
Fischirian
Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
jenseneverest wrote:
Fischirian wrote:
I attached the Video.
Don‘t worry about the light smoke over the injectors on the right head. Comes from coolant and diesel because right before the Video i checked Timings (had the cam covers off).
No fault codes
Yes it is running rough
Unfortunately the video doesn't really help, there is a real need to see and hear these things yourself.
At one point i thought i could hear a popping sound from the air intake side???, but as i said it is hard to be sure just from a video.
I take it you did NOT replace the pistons or the conrods ?
A cracked piston sometimes only manifests or opens up the crack when the engine gets to temperature.
The other thing that worries me is a bent conrod.... but your compression looks to be fairly even across the cylinders. You could have a quick look at big end bearings for any unusual wear now you have the motor back out.....
Other than it being a mechanical issue, then you would have to look at the fuel side of things.
Keep us updated as to how you get on, good luck
Hey mate,
thanks for your help!
I don`t replaced pistons / conrods but i measured them, they were in tolerance.
I even thought about a cracked piston but first i would have seen this while assembly and second the compression tells something different, pistons & rods must be fine.
I already changed injectors but no difference.
Will keep you updated and i appreciate every help
21st Dec 2022 9:39 pm
Fischirian
Member Since: 14 Aug 2022
Location: Osnabrück
Posts: 28
Disco_Mikey wrote:
Fischirian wrote:
rrhool wrote:
If it's had a valve strike, I wonder if one of the cams has a twist?
Yeah you are right. I replaced the exhaust cam of the left head because it was damaged due to the broken followers. I am pretty sure the other 3 cams had no twist in it.
The cam lobes spin on these. I'll put good money on it there are a couple spun on another cam
Hey Mikey,
i checked the cams from my recordings with pictures from the net. The lobes are in the same position.
I was thinking a lot about this and yeah, this could be the problem.
But otherwise ... if the lobes spin, i wouln`t have that compression readings, or what do you think?
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