Sara
Member Since: 03 Jan 2023
Location: Liphook
Posts: 5
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| Parking speed steering judder |
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I have what appears to be a very unusual issue with the steering on my 2016 Disco 4.
I can't find a single reference to this problem anywhere online - there are plenty of steering-related issues referred to but not mine as far as I can discover. The issue started shortly after a recent service from an independent LR specialist. We have used this outfit for 20 years and more for many different kinds of LRs and trust their judgement. On returning to them with the Disco they were unable to detect any issue either on inspection or in terms of error codes. However they did acknowledge the issue on a test drive.
The issue manifests itself at parking speeds and is most noticeable on full lock. You can hear the front wheels 'juddering' rather than steering smoothly, and - just - feel the juddering through the steering wheel.
MY LR specialist said that the car is safe to drive and there are no visible issues with the steering. And in fact at anything other than walking speeds it feels completely normal. They said they will investigate by making some enquiries and get back to me.
I suspect the steering pump. I guess it works hardest at zero speed and perhaps an internal valve is sticking or something that makes the assistance unsteady.
Thoughts please!
Last edited by Sara on 4th Jan 2023 12:21 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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 3rd Jan 2023 10:04 pm |
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CDS
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Member Since: 12 Oct 2009
Location: Cornwall & most of the UK!
Posts: 3344
 
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Did you have any steering or suspension work done, or just an annual service?
Discovery 3/4 & RRS keys cut and programmed at your home or work
Apple CarPlay/ Android Auto retro fit - see it here
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blanking
Software updates/ enabling
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| 3rd Jan 2023 11:00 pm |
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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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Are the correct size wheels & tyres fitted? what are the tread depths and age of tyre (DOT code)? are the tyre pressures correct?
it sounds very much like the geometry is incorrect, there is a similar 'characteristic' with some Merc's. that only occurs at low speed, full or near full lock and with tyre tread depth below ~5mm that the manufacturer deems acceptable due to the geometry set-up.
If this is the cause with yours, then it would indicate either the geometry has been set incorrectly or there is significant movement in a component that shouldn't have it or binding in a component that should have free movement. You don't mention any odd noises from the steering system (relief valve operation, pump noise etc.) so I doubt it's a problem with the power steering - although it could be an issue with the steering tie rods or outer ball joint having a 'tight point'.
It could also be a loose road wheel.....
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| 4th Jan 2023 7:25 am |
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Brian Considine
Member Since: 05 Dec 2022
Location: Nr Margate
Posts: 280
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I can't see it being a wheel/tyre/geometry issue unless any of these have been changed just prior to the issue manifesting itself.
I would suspect (from experience with other vehicles) an air lock** in the steering mechanism caused by either low fluid (check when wheels are on full lock) or a weak/failing pump.
** check for bubbles in the reservoir.
Hope this helps.
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| 4th Jan 2023 7:55 am |
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Sara
Member Since: 03 Jan 2023
Location: Liphook
Posts: 5
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Routine service - no suspension or steering work.
Did get the original tyres replaced with Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure tyres as the car regularly gets used in muddy fields and got stuck occasionally on the standard road tyres. Tyre size is 255/55R19. They are pretty much on full tread and correct pressure. LR specialist did say that these were effectively slightly larger than standard and I believe they re-calibrated the car accordingly. But they dismissed it as a likely cause of the problem, especially as these tyres have been on the vehicle 6 months and the issue has only just arisen. As in 'overnight' not developed.
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| 4th Jan 2023 9:17 am |
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Sara
Member Since: 03 Jan 2023
Location: Liphook
Posts: 5
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Brian Considine wrote:I can't see it being a wheel/tyre/geometry issue unless any of these have been changed just prior to the issue manifesting itself.
I would suspect (from experience with other vehicles) an air lock** in the steering mechanism caused by either low fluid (check when wheels are on full lock) or a weak/failing pump.
** check for bubbles in the reservoir.
Hope this helps.
There was a problem about a year ago. A very low level rumbling noise was traced to the steering pump and bubbles in the fluid. LR specialist identified this and removed bubbles (bled?) the pump and topped up the fluid. This seemed to fix that issue, but makes me wonder if the pump perhaps got damaged or is continuing to develop air bubbles. Will inspect for bubbles later today if I can.
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| 4th Jan 2023 9:44 am |
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Mr.Pastry
Member Since: 24 Nov 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 484
  
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Low speed on full lock!
Transfer box......  Mitsubishi Outlander Phev 4H 2018.
Mitsubishi Outlander Phev 4H 2015 - gone.
Discovery 4 HSE - gone.
Discovery 3 S - gone.
Discovery 3 - gone.
Discovery 1 - gone.
Defender 90 300TDI - gone.
Defender 90 200TDI - gone.
Landrover 90 19J - gone.
Argocat 8x8 - gone.
Argocat 6x6 - gone
RR/LR V8 Hybrid 100" - gone.
Rangerover Classic 3.5 - gone.
Series III 2.25- gone.
Series IIa 3.0V6- gone.
Series I - 80" gone.
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| 4th Jan 2023 11:13 am |
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M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8228
 
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All PS systems have a safety valve when on full lock, it is bad practice in my book to hold the steering on full lock as this is when the system is under most pressure and likely to cause a seal to blow particularly on high mileage vehicles, when you reach full lock it is wise to back off slightly, in your case it may be the safety relief valve that is blowing off under high pressure.
The new tyres having extra grip will put the steering under more load than the worn tyres you have removed, try increasing the tyre pressure and see if it makes any difference  It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
Last edited by M3DPO on 4th Jan 2023 11:35 am. Edited 1 time in total
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| 4th Jan 2023 11:31 am |
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CDS
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 12 Oct 2009
Location: Cornwall & most of the UK!
Posts: 3344
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If nothing other than a service has been done, I’d be tempted to recalibrate the transfer box and see if that improves things.
Discovery 3/4 & RRS keys cut and programmed at your home or work
Apple CarPlay/ Android Auto retro fit - see it here
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blanking
Software updates/ enabling
Mobile Servicing & Repairs
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| 4th Jan 2023 11:34 am |
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NJSS
Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10808
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Welcome Sara
Good to see another local member.
NJSS Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t.
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| 4th Jan 2023 11:39 am |
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Gary_P
Member Since: 03 May 2016
Location: Kent
Posts: 1668
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Just a thought, and probably a stupid one as I have no technical knowledge in this. Since you changed the tyres are they more 'Knobbly' and is this something that would be more noticeable at low speed or on full lock? Also could the tyres be stepped?
It's just that I've noticed when I've had new tyres fitted ( albeit just a normal road tyre) I notice a rumbling noise as the speed lowers.
Good luck solving this. Gary
-------------------------------------------
Discovery 4 HSE 2016MY
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| 4th Jan 2023 1:05 pm |
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Mr.Pastry
Member Since: 24 Nov 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 484
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Juddering when turning with full lock & at slow speed is often caused by the transfer box clutch pack binding up.
Get your indie to perform a transfer box calibration.
Better still, if its a high mileage car, have the transfer box oil changed too. Mitsubishi Outlander Phev 4H 2018.
Mitsubishi Outlander Phev 4H 2015 - gone.
Discovery 4 HSE - gone.
Discovery 3 S - gone.
Discovery 3 - gone.
Discovery 1 - gone.
Defender 90 300TDI - gone.
Defender 90 200TDI - gone.
Landrover 90 19J - gone.
Argocat 8x8 - gone.
Argocat 6x6 - gone
RR/LR V8 Hybrid 100" - gone.
Rangerover Classic 3.5 - gone.
Series III 2.25- gone.
Series IIa 3.0V6- gone.
Series I - 80" gone.
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| 4th Jan 2023 2:02 pm |
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Sara
Member Since: 03 Jan 2023
Location: Liphook
Posts: 5
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NJSS wrote:Welcome Sara
Good to see another local member.
NJSS
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| 4th Jan 2023 2:28 pm |
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Flatlander
Member Since: 20 Jul 2015
Location: Here
Posts: 575
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Sara wrote:Routine service - no suspension or steering work.
Did get the original tyres replaced with Goodyear Wrangler All-Terrain Adventure tyres as the car regularly gets used in muddy fields and got stuck occasionally on the standard road tyres. Tyre size is 255/55R19. They are pretty much on full tread and correct pressure. LR specialist did say that these were effectively slightly larger than standard and I believe they re-calibrated the car accordingly. But they dismissed it as a likely cause of the problem, especially as these tyres have been on the vehicle 6 months and the issue has only just arisen. As in 'overnight' not developed.
255/55R19 is a valid tyre size - not oversized at all, I'd be asking what adjustments or recalibration they carried out as the vehicle does not require any. Tyre wear in six months will change the rolling diameter, if the transfer box calibration makes no difference, then I'd suggest a front wheel geometry check.
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| 4th Jan 2023 3:19 pm |
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Sara
Member Since: 03 Jan 2023
Location: Liphook
Posts: 5
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I believe they saw the tyre size thing as marginal. The bigger tread blocks make the tyre very slightly taller?
Thanks all for the feedback and ideas on possible causes. It seems there could be various causes for the problem, so perhaps the workshop weren't being dumb in not getting to an answer on a quick inspection when I took it back and they got it on the ramp. I think they eliminated any obvious problems - loose or damaged suspension, steering components or road wheel.
It looks like I have a useful checklist to compare with what they might do when they take another look:
Transfer box calibration (I've no idea what this consists of  but. . .)
Perhaps try over-inflating the tyres as a diagnostic for steering pump issues
Steering geometry check
Fingers crossed we get to the bottom of it.
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| 4th Jan 2023 5:15 pm |
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