So I have a little problem with my 2006 165000 mile Disco3 and I am struggling for what to look to do next, can I get peoples advice please? Potted history of the problem which is intermittent over the last 18 months and 10k miles.
August 2021, returning from Cornwall, stop at services on hot day, fully loaded, car restarts but 5 miles later christmas tree of error lights, running rough, pull over, car wont restart. Tried clearing errors and reset to start, no joy. Recovery back to garage takes 5 days, by the time it's there car is running fine and of course no errors! So nothing done.
Couple more times car has not started when warm, I followed some logic, removed engine cover and after 30mins or so it works. So I think its to do with heat.
August 2022 now, again in Cornwall, running lumpy on short journey, pull over, stop/start fixes, then again 5 miles later, this time however its running rough, eventually stopping and wont restart. The AA clear the codes, I spotted that they mentioned injectors at max/min limit and he cant get it to restart, recovery truck comes to collect 3 days later and what do you know, it starts. I let them take it to the garage anyway, who use it lots and of course it never misbehaves.
A week after picking it back up, it does it again. This time I get the errors!
P140A EGR sensor (they are deleted)
P02AA Cyl 5 Fuel Air Mixture Malfunction
P020E Cyl 5 Injection time malfunction
P020D Cyl 4 Injection time malfunction
P062E Output stage injectors bank 2 malfunction
P062E Output stage injectors bank 2 malfunction
AA reset errors and it goes from not starting to running rough, and the live errors show only cyl 5 errors coming back. Limp home, car now in drive. Runs almost fine but still definitely lumpy, so assuming cyl 5 still has errors (I haven't cleared it again)
So after lots of reading, and scary stuff I struggle to understand about injectors, I am wondering if its wiring related. The loom on the engine feels pretty crusty, or maybe ECU? Basically as I understand it injectors dont seem to be intermittent, at least not over that many thousands of miles.
So what first? Check out the ECU for water damage? Buy a second hand loom to try switching that? Or am I being optimistic that its not injectors just because they scare me?2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
18th Nov 2022 11:28 pm
Globetrotter448
Member Since: 21 Mar 2017
Location: Londonderry NSW
Posts: 1807
It sounds like a connector problem as it only occurs when hot. First connector to heck would be injector five. Make sure you check the correct connector five
20th Nov 2022 9:32 am
motorworks
Member Since: 14 Nov 2019
Location: Usk
Posts: 412
I just fitted a used 2.7 D3 engine into RRS. From cold start it was smooth and running normally, but as it warmed up became rough.
Error code
P020C Cylinder 3 injection timing
I replaced injector 3, now back to smooth running cold or hot.Chris
20th Nov 2022 11:17 pm
Philnic
Member Since: 09 May 2018
Location: Theydon Bois, Essex
Posts: 45
Ok thanks, not had any time to check until now. I have these values. Is inj 4 the problem, or is it compensating for 5?2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
6th Dec 2022 1:38 pm
Philnic
Member Since: 09 May 2018
Location: Theydon Bois, Essex
Posts: 45
Right after some reading I realised it wasn't quite warm, but once it is no great departure from the above, but also it faulted again. The consistent error is injector 5 (using an IID is that cyl 5 too IE middle of battery side bank). Am thinking to just change that but want to be sure I've tested all I need to.
2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
6th Dec 2022 5:00 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
Measure the resistance of all the injectors across the pins at the injectors, do it with the engine cold then hot. You will need to measure for at least 5 seconds for a correct reading. If you have a piezo stack failing this will show up as a low resistance reading.
When these fail it can effectively cause a short to ground through the piezo stack causing the engine ECU to crap out and shut down a full bank if not both banks of injectors. I would expect a good/ new injector to read 180 to 185 on the 200 k ohm setting of a multi meter.
Hope this helps
Last edited by Mastertech on 9th Dec 2022 8:23 pm. Edited 1 time in total
6th Dec 2022 11:41 pm
ekwan
Member Since: 24 Apr 2016
Location: P Jaya
Posts: 34
So I have a little problem with my 2006 165000 mile Disco3 and I am struggling for what to look to do next, can I get peoples advice please? Potted history of the problem which is intermittent over the last 18 months and 10k miles.
August 2021, returning from Cornwall, stop at services on hot day, fully loaded, car restarts but 5 miles later christmas tree of error lights, running rough, pull over, car wont restart. Tried clearing errors and reset to start, no joy. Recovery back to garage takes 5 days, by the time it's there car is running fine and of course no errors! So nothing done.
Couple more times car has not started when warm, I followed some logic, removed engine cover and after 30mins or so it works. So I think its to do with heat.
August 2022 now, again in Cornwall, running lumpy on short journey, pull over, stop/start fixes, then again 5 miles later, this time however its running rough, eventually stopping and wont restart. The AA clear the codes, I spotted that they mentioned injectors at max/min limit and he cant get it to restart, recovery truck comes to collect 3 days later and what do you know, it starts. I let them take it to the garage anyway, who use it lots and of course it never misbehaves.
A week after picking it back up, it does it again. This time I get the errors!
P140A EGR sensor (they are deleted)
P02AA Cyl 5 Fuel Air Mixture Malfunction
P020E Cyl 5 Injection time malfunction
P020D Cyl 4 Injection time malfunction
P062E Output stage injectors bank 2 malfunction
P062E Output stage injectors bank 2 malfunction
AA reset errors and it goes from not starting to running rough, and the live errors show only cyl 5 errors coming back. Limp home, car now in drive. Runs almost fine but still definitely lumpy, so assuming cyl 5 still has errors (I haven't cleared it again)
So after lots of reading, and scary stuff I struggle to understand about injectors, I am wondering if its wiring related. The loom on the engine feels pretty crusty, or maybe ECU? Basically as I understand it injectors dont seem to be intermittent, at least not over that many thousands of miles.
So what first? Check out the ECU for water damage? Buy a second hand loom to try switching that? Or am I being optimistic that its not injectors just because they scare me?
Just avoid driving you car during the month of August
7th Dec 2022 2:50 am
Philnic
Member Since: 09 May 2018
Location: Theydon Bois, Essex
Posts: 45
Right so whilst the errors are often cyl 5 as mentioned above - testing resistance:
COLD - all in region of 195-200 ohms
HOT -
CYL 4 250
CYL 2 780!
So whilst I don't know quite what's going on with the injector, I'm now thinking injector 2 replacement might be the plan, as it ran (badly) from cold, but got worse as it got warmer. Hoping that the prior high values/errors on cyl 5 were coming from it compensating.2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
9th Dec 2022 5:27 pm
Mastertech
Member Since: 13 Apr 2014
Location: North East
Posts: 131
Does it run better if cyl 2 is unplugged? Unplug it before starting the engine.
9th Dec 2022 8:20 pm
Philnic
Member Since: 09 May 2018
Location: Theydon Bois, Essex
Posts: 45
So, a few outcomes from that test.
It was running roughly, up to temp, tried unplugging 5 first, definitely ran rougher.
Then plugged 5 back in and unplugged 2 - and it wouldn't fire at all, as in, seems like the ECU has said no, it just turns, in the same way as the initial breakdowns. Clearing codes makes no difference.
So apply the same solution to that as worked before, ie leave it a few days, and of course it then fires up. Very reluctant to start, but started and warmed up, and sure enough, get a fault on bank 2 once it gets warm (note cyl 2 with the massive resistance increase isnt in bank 2), but still runs if lumpy.
Kill the engine, unplug cyl 2 again - same result, just cranks, no attempt to fire.
This afternoon I might have a look at the ECU, just looking at the selection of errors I just wonder if there is water damage there, or maybe even something on the bank 2 side of the loom.2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
14th Dec 2022 12:36 pm
Philnic
Member Since: 09 May 2018
Location: Theydon Bois, Essex
Posts: 45
ECU looks fine. I know that's not very scientific but I mean no signs of water damage. Haven't opened it up, not sure that's going to tell me much. Not sure what next. Probably close inspection of the loom on Friday.2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
14th Dec 2022 9:10 pm
Globetrotter448
Member Since: 21 Mar 2017
Location: Londonderry NSW
Posts: 1807
Are you sure cylinder 2 is not injector 5
16th Dec 2022 6:43 am
Philnic
Member Since: 09 May 2018
Location: Theydon Bois, Essex
Posts: 45
Could be! I've not seen anything conclusive as to how the iid numbers the injectors. Lots of comments like "it might be in firing order". Happy with which cylinder is which though. I note iid uses "cylinder x" even when getting injector values.
But regardless, the one with the dodgy resistance figures when unplugged means the engine won't fire. And it's on bank 1 (drivers side) when all the bank errors in the above are for bank 2! Which was how I went down the ECU rabbit hole!
If the loom looks good I think it's time to buy an injector and start swapping them out.2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
16th Dec 2022 8:08 am
Philnic
Member Since: 09 May 2018
Location: Theydon Bois, Essex
Posts: 45
Right so Christmas out of the way, time to turn the attention back to the car. ECU all looks fine, discounting that for now.
Currently runs really lumpy, and coaxing into life with the throttle. Error on cyl 4 and 6 now. No live values, all reading the same. Clear errors, start again, cylinder 5 now. Argh!
BUT now unplugging one by one, doesn't start at all with any of them unplugged except cylinder 5 (which must be injector 4), when it runs much better. At least this ties in with bank 2 errors earlier, and possibly the injector 5 errors if this is compensating for a dodgy 4. The only thing it doesn't tie in with is the resistance values.
So now it sort of runs, do I try to get it up to Broadfields, or do the great minds on here think this is conclusive enough to change injector 4 and see where we go? Is an injector change easy enough?
2006 Java Black Metropolis - my first dip into the D3 world!
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