Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
failed mot/tüv because of black smoke and exhaust gas values
Hi
Since some time I have big smoke screen behind me when I accelerate hard.
Its running fine and has power.
All the intercooler tubes are new.
Today I had TÜV inspection, and without any surrprise, I didn't pass.
Now is the question, what could it be?
As I said, it has power, and is running ok (as ok as ever, with all the rattling and klinking, and shaking )
The intercoolertubes are all 3 new.
injectors are all new
Highpressure fuel pump is new
any ideas?
best regards
Roland
6th Mar 2023 3:12 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 350
Lack of oxygen for amount of fuel injected would be my guess or starting point. So I’d look at:
Egr valves - if stuck it’s breathing the exhaust fumes and not getting freash air
Choked air filter or induction system
Lack of boost from turbo - sticky vane actuator? Damaged turbo impellers?
Over injection of fuel? Check injector balance figuresSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
6th Mar 2023 8:17 pm
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
No egr fitted
Balance is good with all the new injectors.
Air Filter is new
The turbo is my concern from the beginning.
It's more or less the last thing that remains.
But the engine runs fine. No lack of power.
Is the turbo vane actuator accessable thru the wheel well?
6th Mar 2023 10:39 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10392
Black smoke Over fueling
Blue smoke oil eg turbo
7th Mar 2023 12:06 am
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
The new injectors could be the problem..
I did run mine on VDO JAG spec injectors, who deliver a different amount of diesel as the VDO D3 LR spec injectors.. (they look the same!) so they were smokey although power output did feel ok!
A slightly different mapping did the trick.. so i still use the JAG spec injectors with no smoke now (and even a bit more power)Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
7th Mar 2023 12:11 am
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
My injectors should be original VDO Lr3 spec.
How did you change the mapping? where did you get it?
Where is the best way to access the turbo actuator? and how can I test it? should it be freely movable?
best regards
7th Mar 2023 7:53 am
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
It is just an idea/suggestion But as you can see here , there a 3 different spec injectors for the Lion TDV6
Maybe you can check them
Click image to enlarge
This is a original VDO list..Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
7th Mar 2023 9:09 am
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
above here, Pete K did give you a rule of thump, is the smoke black or blue?
i presume black (over fueling) as a stuck turbo actuator instantly gives a noticable power loss, as far as i know..
i have seen JAG injectors advertised on internet as Landrover injectors...
were yours brand new? in the original box?
or "brand new" low mileage, taken out of an engine (in a LR)
just checkin../ helpingBest regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
7th Mar 2023 10:53 am
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
I think the injectors must be the correct one.
I didn't change all at once.
First just 2 of them, then 3 more, and finally the last one.
It was always running good.
And just fore proof, when I changed the 3 pieces, they send two correct ones and one wrong. I think it was one for euro 4. It completly destroyed the balancing.
So, I guess that finally they are all correct. And they are refurbished VDO.
The smoke is black in my opinion. but sometimes its hard to say if it hasn't a blue touch.
But the engine doesn'T consume oil or water.
so guess its just on the rich side.
7th Mar 2023 3:29 pm
Mouse-Simon
Member Since: 24 Feb 2020
Location: Scotland
Posts: 28
Had a similar situation at the weekend with my wife's RRS I got plenty of lubricant on the turbo actuator rod and ensured that was free moving and it sorted it all out now no smoke👍 you need to give it an Italian tune up now and again 😁D3, D2 and RRS owner 😱
7th Mar 2023 3:43 pm
L319
Member Since: 14 Dec 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 2080
Is the Air Flow meter giving correct reading, had to change my Rover 45 Diesel . It ran well but horrendous black smoke
7th Mar 2023 7:30 pm
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
I moved the actuator rod. its running more or less smooth with very low friction.
I will try the air flow meter next.
7th Mar 2023 7:40 pm
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
Does anybody know "standard" values for the airflow meter?
I can read the live values with the gap tool. and they seem to me not unlikely. but I don't have any values to compare.
I testet the whole intake system for leaks by pressurizing it with approx. 1 bar. and smoke.
Couldn't find anything. no smoke and no hissing.
the turbo actuator moves freely.
the injector balance is good.
I run out of ideas.
at the moment it smells horrible in idle but doesn't smoke on idle.
even when I give it the beans in 3rd gear. it doesn't smoke really (as far as I can tell from the driver seat). Just when I kick it down in 3rd and the transmission decides to shift back to 2nd gear. then there is obvious smoke in the back mirror.
any more ideas?
12th Apr 2023 10:28 am
waterbuoy
Member Since: 26 Oct 2013
Location: Argyll
Posts: 2871
What spec are the intercooler pipes? Had a similar issue with our TD5 110 a good while back and, on watching the pipes whilst someone was revving the engine, they could be seen to collapse - turned out that the inner lining had collapsed (simple roadside fix with fencing wire and foil). If your pipes are a softer spec than original then might that be a possible?Currently 2009 Disco 3 SE, 2013 MY D4 HSE and 2016 D4 SE
Previously:
TD5 Defender 110 CSW (230k miles)
300TDi Disco 1 (289k)
4 RR Classics (300-350k each, 2 manual, 2 auto)
110 V8 CSW (220k)
S3 109 hi cap pickup (ex RN)
S2A 88 Safari SW with lpg conversion (bloody lethal)
12th Apr 2023 10:46 am
Fuxl
Member Since: 29 Jul 2020
Location: Kirchstetten
Posts: 96
I don't think that this is the case. On the pressure side are new silikone hoses.....and they are on the "high" pressure side. as soon as there is boost they can just explode, but not collapse.
And on the sucktion side of the turbo are just the OEM hardplastik tubes. they could crack, but it seems that they are ok.
Another clue to the problem: It could be that she needs a second more to get going from a stand still. I'm not sure if it was always that way, but yesterday at an intersection, I had to kick it down from a stand still, and it took ages to get from the spot........or it felt like it took ages because of the big truck which almost crashed into me.
strange things happen in the engine compartment.
next step would be to change all sensors step by step..... but thats an expensiv trial and error method.
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