I am having issues with the brakes on my 2014 D4 HSE. The brakes were working well but worn out. I have replaced all the discs, pads and calipers. However, I am having issues getting a decent pedal. There are no leaks anywhere. I have bled them manually and also used a decent pressure bleeder and also used the odd bleeding procedure prescribed in the iid tool. No pedal. Tried the iid method while pumping the brake pedal without success.
Using the iid method I have had the ABS pump running and followed the procedure to the letter. Still no pedal. Bled NSR NSF OSF OSR, then tried NSR OSR NSF OSF as in the standard way of doing it. The important thing is that I'm not getting any further air out of it no matter which way round I try. The master cylinder pumps copious amounts of fluid. The fluid is new and there are no "bits" in it.
Getting irritated now. Any ideas anyone?2011 D4 HSE, it'll be nice if it ever works!
2014 D4 HSE Luxury. as if one money pit isn't enough!
My old 2005 D3. Now sold after 362000 on the original engine!
20th Feb 2024 9:48 am
rrhool
Member Since: 28 Aug 2014
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 4520
How are the flexi pipes? Old flexi's can give the impression of a soft brake pedal.Richard
D3 SE 2007. Triumph 2.5Pi 1973. Ferguson TEA20 1948.
Discovery 2 4.0 ES 2001- Gone
Discovery 1 300Tdi ES '95 - Gone
Range Rover Classic '79 - Gone
Thanks for that, all my hoses are in good condition and it is not the issue.2011 D4 HSE, it'll be nice if it ever works!
2014 D4 HSE Luxury. as if one money pit isn't enough!
My old 2005 D3. Now sold after 362000 on the original engine!
20th Feb 2024 3:04 pm
Sylvester19
Member Since: 17 Jul 2020
Location: Central Scotland
Posts: 128
Some calipers come already with brake fluid in them to help with bleeding, can only suggest maybe removing the calipers from the mounts and rotating them a little to maybe get any trapped air to the top at the bleed nipple. If it's safe to do so have you driven the car and tried the brakes a few times?
20th Feb 2024 11:13 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
Re: Brake bleeding issue
steamraiser2 wrote:
I have replaced all the discs, pads and calipers. However, I am having issues getting a decent pedal.
Getting irritated now. Any ideas anyone?
Did you clamp the flexi's when replacing the calipers or just let them drain down?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
20th Feb 2024 11:54 pm
Martin Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18562
Have you fitted the calipers on the correct side, bleed screw on top?06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
Any issues with the site let me know!
Yes the calipers are correctly fitted and work if I pump the pedal. The issue is that I cant maintain a decent pedal. It goes down to the floor within a few seconds2011 D4 HSE, it'll be nice if it ever works!
2014 D4 HSE Luxury. as if one money pit isn't enough!
My old 2005 D3. Now sold after 362000 on the original engine!
The hoses were clamped as the calipers were changed. I'm getting no further air when I bleed the brakes. and I have even loosened off pipe connections on the ABS unit to confirm fluid flow. All seems fine. The ABS unit seems to operate robustly when using the iid bleeding method and the master cylinder pumps a lot of fluid through the lines. Not a bubble but no pedal.2011 D4 HSE, it'll be nice if it ever works!
2014 D4 HSE Luxury. as if one money pit isn't enough!
My old 2005 D3. Now sold after 362000 on the original engine!
21st Feb 2024 9:43 am
itsaguything
Member Since: 20 Dec 2023
Location: Manotick, On
Posts: 256
As you, its only 2 things in my mind.
And that’s not air as you stated that the pedal goes to the floor. If it were air, it would pump up.
Therefore, a master cylinder problem or a fluid leak.
My .02 worth.2015 LR4 HSE Lux Aintree Green
2013 LR2 HSE Radiance Red
2007 XKR Jaguar Racing Green
2005 XJR Jaguar Racing Green
2002 S-Type R British Racing Green
21st Feb 2024 1:44 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5043
As has been said, if the pedal is travelling to the floor there is either a leak or air is present in the system. You could try a pressure bleeder (which is the best way to bleed) and see if that can find any trapped air.
How old was the brake fluid before you changed it?
It might be the seals in the master cylinder have become damaged, and are no longer able to maintain the line pressure. Old fluid that has not been changed will absorb too much moisture which rusts the barrel of the master cylinder. (beyond the point of the piston's normal travel!)
Then, when bleeding via the pedal the seals are forced into the rusty cylinder wall causing them to tear. The piston is now free to move beyond it's intended range even with the system closed. (pedal on the floor)
With the system closed, if the reservoir level is going down when you pump the pedal to the floor, this is a definite sign that fluid is escaping past the seals and leaking into the booster. If the level is not going down, it could still be a damaged master cylinder as the rear seal might still be holding.
It does tend to happen with much older cars, but if there are no leaks and you are sure all the air has been expelled it's the only plausible option I can think of.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
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