DISCO4.COM - View topic - Not a Good Failure to Have in the Outback

DingMark

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Perth Oz or Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 388

2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Ipanema Sand

Not a Good Failure to Have in the Outback

The below post is also under the "electronic park brake faults" section, but it is specifically applicable to those driving in the Australian Outback. Here it is:

I have had only 1 parking brake failure but is was quite spectacular. See the photos for extra information.

A week or so after New Years, we were happily travelling the 4800 kms between Brisbane back home to Perth, trying to stay on more scenic back roads. We had succeeded and were literally "Back-of-Bourke" when the brake seized up. "B-O-B" is considered to be the start of the Australian Outback. We were also the first vehicle on our particular track in over a week as the Darling River was just recovering from a big flood (first time it had a flow in about 7 years or so). Happily and confidentally driving along for hours despite the 45 deg C heat, I did note the fuel consumption was worse than expected (this was a petrol V8, pulling a loaded bush trailer at 105 km/hr on a dirt road, so some fuel should be consumed, but we did have 170 litres of 98 octane petrol on board). Suddenly the traction control unit started flashing and handling wasn't perfect, so I slowed down. The right rear tyre was completely blown. "No worries" as we had 3 spares (and 2 more if we had to abandon the trailer). On changing the spare I managed to blister my index finger from an ultra-hot wheel nut, and the tyre blowout pattern was unusual (outside of tyre had melted in spots, but the inside was not too bad). So we continued to drive on. There was a bit of a "eek-eek-eek" noise from the back but I incorrectly put this down to the fridge having shifted during the tyre change. We drove on and the D3 handled just fine. Put that down to the traction control systems working overtime and masking a developing problem.
About 1 hour later, the "eek-eek-eek" became quiet, but all the dash lights started flashing, and I saw a cloud of dust along with some black smoke inthe rear-view mirror. Hit the skids and pulled off the track (not that there had been any traffic for the past week). It was obvous that the right rear wheel had seized. We couldn't go forwards or backward and attempting to do so caused terrible noises.

Walked back to the right-rear tyre and WOW. The inner part of the brake assembly (which houses the parking brake) was glowing a dull red, burning rubber could be smelled and smoke was wafting from the wheel, around the fuel filler line. Visualising what this might be doing to the 170litres of petrol, we rapidly emptied all available drink bottles on the hot wheel assembly. This did put out the smouldering fire but managed to crack the brake assemply. One urgent problem solved but one big problem was caused. At least we had 150l of water, days of food and an EPIRB available to reduce the urgency and stress of it all. Ended up spending the next 4 hours sledge-hammering the seized brake assembly off the vehicle, wiring the somewhat warped disk brake pads sideways in the caliper (to prevent blowing all the brake fluid when applying the brakes), and slowly driving off to Wilcannia (despite the rough reputation, is was truly "civilisation" to us and the locals treated us with good humour the next morning.

What had obviously happened was the the adjusting bolt in the parking brake had suffered a fatigue failure. This caused the parking brake shoe to fall against the brake drum. The electronic stability control worked so well that I couldn't tell it. The heat from the wearing brake caused the tyre to blow (heat radiating from the brake up the aluminium alloy wheel which melted the nearest tyre rubber). That's why the wheel nuts were also so painfully hot. Driving on the squeeking was probably the point where the final brake composite material wore off and it was metal-to-metal rubbing. This caused everything to get very hot and ultimately seize up and start a small fire.

Lessons learned? Using water on a vehicle fire (unless it's fuel) is best. Don't ignore squeeking brakes, particularly if in the Outback. Carry the star fitting to remove a brake disk if in remote areas.

One final positive point. Land Rover have been "exemplary" in fully honouring their warranty. Without blinking (all-be-it with some laughter) they towed me 580 km from Wilcannia to the nearest dealer in Dubbo. This is about from the Land Rover factory in Solihull to Inverness, Scotland. We also received 3 days in a motel paid by Land Rover and a rental car. It's been a month and they're still fixing the vehicle. Seems a lot of rubber parts melted. Also to replace the twisted and stretched parking brake line they have had to remove the original and my auxiliary fuel tank at no cost. There were no worries about any of the accessories I'd added nor the 9" wide RRS 19" wheel which had blown. In fact, they're replacing the blown tyre with a new one, despite it being 90% worn. I am out the family's airfares back to Perth. We'll plan to pick up the D3 and continue the holiday at Easter.

There was a bit of a saga about getting the warranty approved. I gave the Dealer all the twisted parts, as well as the photos of the event (see my photo album). There's also a video showing the disk brake finally yielding to 4 hours of hammering, but it's too big to upload to the site (anyone know how to shrink it?). The local Dubbo, NSW dealer sent the broken bits and photos off to the national office in Sydney. Unfortunately the guy who handles warranty approvals for Land Rover was on holiday and his replacement was the Jaguar warranty department. For some reason, Jaguar had trouble coming to terms with the concept of 4 hours of sledge-hammering a vehicle NOT constituting abuse to the vehicle. When the regular Land Rover warranty guy returned all was approved. In fact they commented that the repair (ie, knocking the brake assembly off and wiring off the disk brake caliper to allow the other 3 brakes to work) was pretty innovative. I suspect that they are just relieved they didn't have to go an extra 200 kms up a dirt road to recover us and are glad we drove into town. I can't fault Land Rover on their warranty. Don't know if Land Cruiser would do the same....

I had what I thought was a very rare, but potentially dangerous, brake failure. Others may want to listen to their brakes a bit more carefully. Having survived it makes for a great story but I may not get my wife (a drama teacher who was not so impressed with what happened on our holiday) back of Bourke any time soon.

Jim Dowell - D4 HSE TDi, 12,000 hydraulic winch & hidden winch mount, MTRs, TyreDog, Traxide 2 x aux battery system, fixed air compressor, Dolium roof rack, MitchHitch.
RIP 2005 D3 HSE V8 5 seater gold (stolen and torched)

5th Feb 2008 3:18 pm

PCH

Member Since: 12 Jan 2005
Location: Anywhere but work
Posts: 812

2012 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Fuji White

Dingmark,

This is quite a story. Your experience with LR CS seemed a pleasant one considering the dilemma you were in. I know of another quite opposite story on their outback trip.

One thing that comes to mind was if a TPMS would have identified that there was a problem with wheel temperature. I believe most systems can monitor temperature as well as pressure.

Considering the remoteness of travel if you are presented with information that is strange maybe you would spend more time investigating what is causing this.

I've thought about buying a TPMS and getting multiple senders fitted to all wheels (inc. trailer and spares) just to preserve tyres in the event of a slow leak. I'm sure it can be used to identify a dragging brake problem.

Just a thought for the future.

Best of luck with future trips.

Chris

(By the way get yourself a TORX bit set - only about $40 for a quality set that will fit all the bolts) 2011 Discovery 4 (MY12) SDV6 HSE with General Grabber AT's, Traxide Aux Battery system, custom rear drawers and Autosafe half height cargo barrier

Gone - 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE
ARB Bull Bar, Warn 9.5XP Winch, IPF D/Lights, Cooper STT's, LR Raised Air Intake, Traxide aux battery system, custom drawers and half height Autosafe cargo barrier, Mitchell Bros 4x4 tow hitch

6th Feb 2008 4:12 am

jonesy63

Member Since: 17 Oct 2006
Location: Didn't we have a lovely time, the day we went to ...
Posts: 848

2011 Discovery 4 TDV6 Base 7 Seat Auto Fuji White

Hi Jim,
Welcome to the mad-house!

Glad you are happy with your service - although I would myself reserve judgement until you have it back!

I am interested - what tyres did you have on the RRS wheels?

Thanks and best wishes,
Rob

6th Feb 2008 8:53 am

heine

Member Since: 07 Feb 2007
Location: Midrand
Posts: 4054

2009 Discovery 3 4.4 V8 HSE Auto Alaska White

PCH wrote:
Dingmark,

One thing that comes to mind was if a TPMS would have identified that there was a problem with wheel temperature. I believe most systems can monitor temperature as well as pressure.

I have an aftermarket TPMS and it has already payed for itself when I was warned about a very hot tire. In my case it was a bearing that was seizing and transmitting heat to the tyre

6th Feb 2008 9:49 am

Jamo

Member Since: 18 Jan 2006
Location: Esperance, Western Australia
Posts: 1170

I'll check my wheel nuts for heat from now on!. Funnily enough we used to check the road wheels on the M113's for heat when halted for a while incase the cearings were seizing, but I have never thought to do it on a car.

I fitted a tyredog TPMS and it works a treat. The sensors replace the valve caps. No good if you tow a van though, as it can only handle four tyres. Have a nice day!
2010 Cayenne Diesel with PASM & Off Road Pkg
2005 HSE D3 (Sold)

6th Feb 2008 10:50 am

pbhawkin

Member Since: 14 Dec 2006
Location: Mudgee
Posts: 377

2013 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 HSE Auto Loire Blue

Anyone interested in exploring a group buy for this item (Model No: TD-1000A-X (Tyre Pressure & Temperature Monitoring System)?
RRP A$399.
I note that members of AULRO organised a price of A$300 each for 25 units in Nov 2007. regards
Peter
__________________________________________
Oct 2013 SDV6 3.0 HSE.
2007 TDV6 SE E-diff, adaptive lights sold 1/2014

6th Feb 2008 10:48 pm

TDMP

Member Since: 16 Jul 2006
Location: South Gippsland
Posts: 511

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Rimini Red

I'm interested Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
(Epicurus BC 341-270)

6th Feb 2008 11:35 pm

WayneD

Member Since: 11 Sep 2007
Location: Sydney Darwin ,Singapore, USA, UK and now country NSW
Posts: 531

2007 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zermatt Silver

Yep im interested Take the road less traveled. Dual battery system.ORS drawers,LR cargo Barrier.ARB Bull bar,side protection bars,Mickey Thompson ATR's 17" rims, Rear wheel carrier, radiator guard TPMS Mitchell Bros Tow Hitch LR RAI Steel Rims , GME UHF, Off Road GPS, Llams (yet to be fitted)

7th Feb 2008 12:14 am

DiscoAtom

Member Since: 28 Sep 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 142

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Buckingham Blue

Count me in also!! '06 Disco 3 TDV6 SE Buckingham Blue

7th Feb 2008 1:26 am

pbhawkin

Member Since: 14 Dec 2006
Location: Mudgee
Posts: 377

I have sent a email to them today so will await their answer.
Damien just phoned me back and advised that the previously mentioned discount was from a dealer and not the supplier. However, he gave me TJMs Kingspark store details to try.
Their quote is:
10 units = $340.00
25 units = $310.00
plus post if applicable.
He would prefer money for all items at once and to give them to a single contact person for redistribution.

Peter regards
Peter
__________________________________________
Oct 2013 SDV6 3.0 HSE.
2007 TDV6 SE E-diff, adaptive lights sold 1/2014

7th Feb 2008 1:46 am

Desert Traveller

Member Since: 06 Aug 2006
Location: The Gabba - QLD
Posts: 420

2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Chawton White

Definately interested. 06 TDV6 SE with many LR and after-market extras. Used only on weekends and trips out west.
Audi TT Roadster (Daily and around town drive)
VW Eos TDI For Sale
Previously 01 TD5 and 94 TDI

7th Feb 2008 2:42 am

PCH

Member Since: 12 Jan 2005
Location: Anywhere but work
Posts: 812

pbhawkin,

I think you have some interest but I want to monitor 6 tyres

Tyredog's 6-22 wheel TPMS is "Coming soon" according to their website.

http://www.tyredog.zylux.com.au/td2000ax.html

It might be best to start a separate thread for interest is a Group Buy to prevent railroading the original post. What do you think

Regards,

Chris 2011 Discovery 4 (MY12) SDV6 HSE with General Grabber AT's, Traxide Aux Battery system, custom rear drawers and Autosafe half height cargo barrier

Gone - 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE
ARB Bull Bar, Warn 9.5XP Winch, IPF D/Lights, Cooper STT's, LR Raised Air Intake, Traxide aux battery system, custom drawers and half height Autosafe cargo barrier, Mitchell Bros 4x4 tow hitch

7th Feb 2008 2:44 am

pbhawkin

Member Since: 14 Dec 2006
Location: Mudgee
Posts: 377

Chris, yes good idea was planing on doing it but waiting to see if it would fly!.
Anyway, TPMS bulk buy now has own thread. regards
Peter
__________________________________________
Oct 2013 SDV6 3.0 HSE.
2007 TDV6 SE E-diff, adaptive lights sold 1/2014

7th Feb 2008 3:18 am

DingMark

Member Since: 14 Sep 2007
Location: Perth Oz or Erbil, Iraq
Posts: 388

Apologies for the delay in replying to the query about the tyre which blew on my D2 a month or so ago. I'm travelling way too much so far this year - and it's all been for work on overnight flights from Perth

, not in the dust or sand

. Still haven't been able to pick up the wounded beast yet, but I do occasionally wave out the window at Dubbo at 3am. Maybe next weekend I can stop over and get as far as Adelaide.
The tyre which blew was a 255 R19 111 Pirelli Scorpion Zero, which had only about 10% tread remaining. It was on a 19" by 9" wide RRS wheel. The original 19" x 8" wide wheels are now all MTRs and were on the trailer (and its 2 spares) as I wasn't yet on rough terrain. For the record, I have not been able to tell the difference between the driveability of the Zeros and the original Goodyear ATs on our (and I'm being charitable here) "uneven" highways and roads. Even mixing and maxing 9" wide vs 8" wide wheels and it's hard to feel the difference. I don't suggest doing this routinely as it has to affect something - I just suspect the instabilities are masked by the computer.
One way to make the D3 act like an old Commodore with slicks on mud it to put Zeros on the front and MTRs on the back. I had a momentary mental lapse and must have thought I was back in Colorado where snow tyres are put on the back of (old rwd) cars in the winter. I'd just had mounted 2 new MRTs (having staked 2 ATs over 2 weekends) and thought I'd have better traction than with 4 ATs. WRONGO. On dirt roads and rough butumen (commonly dried out and rough roads in WA) it was okay. However, on a section of newly paved bitumen the D3 was all over the place, warning lights flashed and I thought I was driving a Patrol, it handled so badly. This may be an issue for those who put on MTRs on, but keep an original AT or HT for a spare. I'd plan on cautiously limping home with this combo. Jim Dowell - D4 HSE TDi, 12,000 hydraulic winch & hidden winch mount, MTRs, TyreDog, Traxide 2 x aux battery system, fixed air compressor, Dolium roof rack, MitchHitch.
RIP 2005 D3 HSE V8 5 seater gold (stolen and torched)

15th Feb 2008 1:38 pm

pbhawkin

Member Since: 14 Dec 2006
Location: Mudgee
Posts: 377

Hi Dingmark,
I was in Dubbo last week and saw your car on a hoist...NO they weren't doing any work on it!
I am surprised by how close Maya Gold is to Atacama Sand!...very nice anyway.
Paul the service manager, said they were still waiting on parts!

Peter regards
Peter
__________________________________________
Oct 2013 SDV6 3.0 HSE.
2007 TDV6 SE E-diff, adaptive lights sold 1/2014

9th Mar 2008 11:54 pm