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Dave T
Member Since: 03 Jul 2009
Location: Glasgow
Posts: 6910
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Good simple explanation, understand that now.  Joined the BMWX5 45e group
1994 Defender 90
2015 RRS Corris Grey/Black roof
2016 D4 Graphite Santorini Black
2012 D4 XS Orkney Grey
2005 D3 S Maya Gold
Convoy for Heroes 2011
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 11th Sep 2011 7:56 am |
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wilcotim1
Member Since: 02 Jun 2010
Location: Peak District
Posts: 5
  
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I've had the car for over 4 years and 50,000 miles. Its never been misfuelled in my ownership.
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| 11th Sep 2011 12:01 pm |
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The Large One
Member Since: 20 Apr 2007
Location: Down the polytunnel
Posts: 6143
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packingstrips wrote:Petrol unlike diesel has very little lubrication proporties....runs through the hpfp and starts to wear the internals....this in turns fills your fuel system with fine metalic particals which make your injectors fail. All it needs is one injector to dribble slightly and goodbye oil quality.
Also fine meatalic particles floating round in the oil lubbing up all them nice big and main shell bearings  TLO has left the building.......
I no longer work for a Landrover Dealer
My little chilli sauce business http://www.thechillees.co.uk
if you would like to order anything just give me a shout
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| 11th Sep 2011 8:17 pm |
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hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
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Hmmm have we found the cause of the engine failures then ???
how long (miles) would it take a leaky injector to cause problems - presumably less than 15000 miles when the oil is changed. I,m thinking of those owners that bought secondhand and know they have not miss fuelled in the last 15000 miles.
all the best Andi.
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| 12th Sep 2011 6:28 pm |
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packingstrips
Member Since: 24 Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 435
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Its only been brought to the table as a possibility......as for the time scale, who knows.
You have to look at it as a strong possibility. Depending on how bad the misfuel has been depends on the cost of repair...if you follow the Land Rover bulletin and the vehicle has been driven until it stops then the repair bill can be several thousands. If the repairs arent carried out then it voids your warranty with regards to engine claims. Whoever suggested this as a possibilty as made a good call because i would bet that there are hundreds of vehicles out there that have just had the lines blown through, fitted new filter , changed fuel and went on their way.
It is a known fact ( and ive seen quite a few ) that misfueling causes wear within the fuel system which knackers injectors and pumps. I guess time scales depend on how bad they were misfueled? Ive seen some with debris in the system after only a few minutes running and have cut out....anything is possible.
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| 12th Sep 2011 6:45 pm |
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zarnd
Member Since: 23 Apr 2010
Location: Kent
Posts: 794
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In some respects I hope it is something like mis-fueling that is the cause and isn't a design fault that we are all going to have to face at some point in our ownership. I bought mine secondhand as have a lot of us and can only hope that it has been treated well before I owned it!
cheers Alex
2007 D3 TDV6 HSE
2009 Caterham Supersport
2005 FFRR Vogue SE 4.2 Supercharged
2004 SL55 AMG
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| 13th Sep 2011 7:49 am |
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Gareth
Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26775
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I don't think it a major design fault. I have driven 2 D3's over the past (almost) 7 years, 200k miles, and never had any engine related mechanical problems. Many others have driven far more miles without engine issues.
I know it seems like a common fault if you read this thread, but we have to keep a relevant perspective on the occurrences. There are 100's of thousands of D3's out there.
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| 13th Sep 2011 5:58 pm |
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wilcotim1
Member Since: 02 Jun 2010
Location: Peak District
Posts: 5
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Gareth I agree with you, I think we have been very unlucky. The bloke at Dragon engines said it took him 2 years to replace 10 TDV6 engines, that includes jags and citroens. As they look after half the lease cars in the country, even accounting for anything under 3 years old being done by the main dealer, that is not a high percentage.
I unfortunately will never find out what has happened to my engine as it will not get taken apart, just shipped back to the manufacturer, but I still cannot believe its ever been misfuelled seeing as its done 50,000 miles without any bother since I've had it.
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| 13th Sep 2011 7:04 pm |
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DannyUbertek
Member Since: 20 Feb 2011
Location: Kent
Posts: 311
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The two engine reports that i have had done state airiation of the oil (or words to that effect) in Idiots terms (me)at some point in history there has been a lack of oil that caused excessive wear to the big end bearing, gradually the bearing would have worn excessively until eventually the engine goes pop!
My guy also stated that it is impossible to prove that this happened (In a court)
It also clearly states in the report undertaken on behalf of woggles deflect that the engine would have been excessively noisy prior to the engine failure (the car was serviced three days before by landrover who didn't say anything about excessive noise) nore was there any noise from the car whilst driving after the service.
Andi could you explain the blocked injector theory..... Spent tooo much club: Air compresser, parking ecu,D4 front D4 rear, tow bar, D4 arches, stormers 20" with General grabbers, new engine, new turbo, new front lower arms, new rear upper arms, new track rod ends, new anti roll bar bushes, Bas remap 2nd stage, K&N filter, clear indicators, door handle covers, nav update, wheel protector, new winch for spare wheel, 20" stormer spare, new plastic tube on top of engine, new fuel flap assembly, new mats, sill protectors,
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| 13th Sep 2011 7:38 pm |
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hugeviking
Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1482
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DannyUbertec
see Packingstrips on page 8 and The Large One above.
Andi.
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| 13th Sep 2011 7:47 pm |
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DannyUbertek
Member Since: 20 Feb 2011
Location: Kent
Posts: 311
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Guys
But you would have to be a total Muppet to mis-fuel a Landrover.... Spent tooo much club: Air compresser, parking ecu,D4 front D4 rear, tow bar, D4 arches, stormers 20" with General grabbers, new engine, new turbo, new front lower arms, new rear upper arms, new track rod ends, new anti roll bar bushes, Bas remap 2nd stage, K&N filter, clear indicators, door handle covers, nav update, wheel protector, new winch for spare wheel, 20" stormer spare, new plastic tube on top of engine, new fuel flap assembly, new mats, sill protectors,
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| 13th Sep 2011 7:58 pm |
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packingstrips
Member Since: 24 Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 435
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But you would have to be a total Muppet to mis-fuel a Landrover....
Which is why i know lots of people from Sesame Street!!
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| 13th Sep 2011 8:21 pm |
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packingstrips
Member Since: 24 Mar 2010
Location: uk
Posts: 435
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For your info guys regarding misfueling.
Guidelines from Land Rover differ due to the nature of the misfuel....from memory so please dont quote me as wrong please!!
1: Puts petrol in...owner realised before putting key in ignition.
2 Puts petrol in...owner puts key in ignition and puts to position 2 on ignition only(doesnt crank)
3: puts petrol in....starts car realises theres an issue and switches off.
4: pus petrol in.....starts car, drives off until theres a horrible misfire and the engine cuts out in a huge plume of smoke.
Depending on the above depends on level of repair.....for 1 you would drain tank and pump...refill with fuel..new filter...bleed fuel through into clean bucket and start.
For 4....would be almost complete fuel system rebuild....new high pressure pump, injectors, high pressure pipes, fuel rails etc etc....costs freaking thousands!!
If any of these repairs are not done correctly they WILL kipper your fuel pump and fill everything with a shiny coat of swarf.
Misfueling IS a strong possibility!!
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| 13th Sep 2011 8:35 pm |
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GraemeS
Member Since: 17 Mar 2008
Location: NSW
Posts: 706
  
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mr.t wrote:There is a service related problem with Subaru Boxer engines where they fail shortly after oil changes.
The only preventative measure being the disconnection of the cam sensor and turning the engine until the oil pressure light goes out.. There is an airlock that starves the engine of oil during first running.
Is there an issue with this engine that's similar???
LR's oil change procedure for the TD5 engine is to drain then refill the oil then R&R the filter so as to avoid draining the oil from all the galleries. If this is also the procedure for the TDV6 engine then there's the opportunity for some people to remove the filter whilst the sump is empty, resulting in no oil pressure for too long on startup and damaged bearings. Home of LLAMS, for LRs and Jeep GCs
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| 13th Sep 2011 8:56 pm |
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DannyUbertek
Member Since: 20 Feb 2011
Location: Kent
Posts: 311
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R&R Rock and Roll?
Can anyone confirm this procedure, on the TDV6?
Ta Spent tooo much club: Air compresser, parking ecu,D4 front D4 rear, tow bar, D4 arches, stormers 20" with General grabbers, new engine, new turbo, new front lower arms, new rear upper arms, new track rod ends, new anti roll bar bushes, Bas remap 2nd stage, K&N filter, clear indicators, door handle covers, nav update, wheel protector, new winch for spare wheel, 20" stormer spare, new plastic tube on top of engine, new fuel flap assembly, new mats, sill protectors,
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| 15th Sep 2011 3:03 pm |
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