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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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| Automatic Gearbox issues - Solved 09/12/11 [PAGE 2] |
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Good Evening, this is my very first post so please accept my apologies should it be in the incorrect place.
I've run a search but can't find an answer to the issues we're having with our recently purchased '54 plate D3 2.7 TDV6 HSE Automatic Gearbox or more correctly the gear selection and as the problem appears to be worsening, I was directed to this forum as a fountain of knowledge.
It is difficult to explain what is actually happening but essentially, the issue is apparent between the 3rd and 4th gear change, it feels almost as though the gearbox doesn't want to up change and holds in 3rd for longer than it would seem necessary; aside from throttling hard (kick down), it will not change up and seems to hunt between 2,000-3,000RPM whilst not really accelerating.
It is getting to the point where the car is a nightmare to drive as this is occurring between 30 and 40mph which is precisely where the average running speed is given how we use it.
Explanations so far have included:
- dirty gearbox oil
- incorrect gearbox oil levels
- torque converter
- gear linkages
Whilst I'm fairly mechanically minded, I'm not overly familiar with automotive engines, especially 4x4s or auto gearboxes and the car is booked into the local LR specialist tomorrow but I'm looking for something to help settle my other half's nerves as she's worried sick given that we've only had the vehicle for <2months.
Last edited by LiVe LeE on 9th Dec 2011 4:56 pm. Edited 4 times in total
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 1st Nov 2011 5:38 pm |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
 
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welcome, this topic has been exhaustively commented on every day, not sure why you cannot find the many 10's of threads about it. 
that said, the possible need to replace the torque converter with the box seem the likely solution however you're about to read comments about the "gearbox flush" which is only suggested for the "juddering" effect we have all had at some point or another.
I've read a post this afternoon that seems to suggest something different, less expensive..... nope I was wrong... that's another solution to the gearbox judder
Last edited by character on 1st Nov 2011 5:52 pm. Edited 3 times in total
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| 1st Nov 2011 5:44 pm |
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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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there's no judder per se, just a distinct lack of wanting to actually up change.
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| 1st Nov 2011 5:46 pm |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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stand by my original suggestion FROM EXPERIENCE... torque converter within the box, cost to remedy around £1500 but TBH given its age etc, might want to have a sample of the gearbox oil tested for coolant contamination (common issue) before you decide coz if you have got it, then its a complete new box along with the suggestion of changing the intercooler, radiator, intercooler pipes to be on the safe side 
when i had the same, i started with cheapest solutions:
gear linkage - no cure
complete new gear selector and cable - no cure
completely new box, radiator, intercooler, intercooler pipes - cured once and for all 
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| 1st Nov 2011 5:52 pm |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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This might help yer, posted today form another member:
"I have got the shudder under load story myself.
Just spoken to a guy at ZF Services South Africa in Jhb. about this ZF 6HP26 box
He told me the sealed for life is an European standard to minimize oil spillage or wastage.
He doesn't believe in it and also say's that the box must get new oil and filters from 90-120000km, he also recommends the steel sump conversion, so at every oil change you just replace the gearbox filter.
Especially when vehicle do hard work and tows, it CAN NOT GO FOR 240 000KM OR 10 YRS without a lube change or service.
According to him when you have Glycol contamination , the gear changes, at the change have a quack sound , he says same as what a duck makes. Also if the converter is on it's way out it will slip, so the revs will surge nearly like a slipping clutch. "
Last edited by character on 1st Nov 2011 6:02 pm. Edited 1 time in total
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| 1st Nov 2011 6:02 pm |
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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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Are these problems usually mileage related? This one is running at less than 75,000 which for a 6 year old car is about average.
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| 1st Nov 2011 6:02 pm |
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character
Member Since: 31 Dec 2007
Location: wiltshire
Posts: 5781
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no hard or fast rule, just alot to do with its previous useage ie long distance or town driving
in real terms, alot of owners start off with the judder which might progress to the torque converter over the comin years of ownership I recon 
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| 1st Nov 2011 6:04 pm |
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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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Well, following a gearbox flush yesterday, the problem is improved although not cured.
With regards to the 'juddering' that has been mentioned elsewhere, is this throughout the gearing or, as with our case, is it restricted to an indivdual gear. The issue we're having is only in 3rd gear, 1st and 2nd gears operate smoothly. It is only 3rd gear which has this problem, if it is indeed 'juddering'. I don't have any experience of the judder so can't comment on whether it is that or not
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| 3rd Nov 2011 9:32 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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it's more prevalent in that gear, simply because it seems to hit the right power/torque/resistant point. It's not the gears in the gearbox that have the problem, it's the torque converter.
It may stay at that same level for a while, but it is likely to get worse over time I'm afraid as it sounds like the damage is done already. Sorry, not great news for you. Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 3rd Nov 2011 9:58 am |
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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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The LR Specialist we use (and is a family friend) is hesitant that its the torque convertor and has suggested gear linkage problems instead and has booked it in at a local transmissions specialist, in turn this is a close friend of his so they have agreed no fees unless they fix the issue and any charge thereafter will be at 'mate's rates'.
Whilst I'm not doubting the quality of his work or suggestions of the problems in any way shape or form, if this is the dreaded 'judder', what am I looking at as a worst case scenario? Rough price and parts list.
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| 3rd Nov 2011 10:07 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Torque Converter and another set of oil (may as well change the filter at the same time).
oil filter aboiut £80 oil at whatever your specialist can get it for, torque converter about £900 ISTR Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 3rd Nov 2011 10:12 am |
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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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so not a full gearbox change as I was worried about?
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| 3rd Nov 2011 10:15 am |
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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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incidentally, I've search Youtube for LR D3 (and all possible itterations thereof) Juddering/problems/revs/issues and not found a video of this problem. Does anyone know or have a link to one so I can determine if this is indeed one and the same?
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| 3rd Nov 2011 10:20 am |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Well if they have the gearbox out, then you may want them to do some seals in it (if they're a gearbox speciallist, it should not be a problem.
You should also get the radiator changed or fit an external oil cooler otherwise you will have the same problem in the future.
from his mammoth thread - amondeggs wrote:Ok a bit of feedback. I collected my car tonight from the specialist. Very professional service but very expensive day. Really pleased with it based on the short drive home. It drives better now than I have ever known before. I have owned car 18mths and am sure now that it has been on way out since I bought it.
They have fitted a new torque convertor, as old one was damaged by water contamination. They have refurbished the box with new seals, friction surfaces etc etc. Filled with new proper oil and fitted it with seperate ATF cooler in front of the main radiator. They have worked on the car for some 50 hours! I have paid 2750 for all this which is a big hit.
I expect many more of you are going to have the same problems soon. It appears to be a design fault with the radiator that causes this whole issue.
I am no expert but if I was read this and my car was 4-5 years old I would look to either fit a new rad as preventative measure or fit an auxiliary ATF cooler. That way you should not have the big bill I have paid today!!!
Will feedback on how car goes over next few days. Great to have it back. One big grin despite the bill. Cheers
Bodsys Brake Bible
D4/D3 Remote FBH heat kits
BAS Remaps/ EGR Blank
Transmission Flush
Software updates/enabling
Clock/ SNOTM /3Flash / 4x4Info /BT Update /Service Reset/Error Codes / Gearbox Reset
See It Here
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| 3rd Nov 2011 10:22 am |
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LiVe LeE
Member Since: 01 Nov 2011
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 18
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if this is a design fault - has it never been picked up with the manufacturer?
By trade, I am a Naval Architect/Boat Builder and we have a 'not fit for purpose' claim currently being processed for a boat that we designed and delivered nearly 10 years ago based on one failed component.
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| 3rd Nov 2011 10:36 am |
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