I have had this problem for nearly 2 years now. 54 Plate, I have had it from 2005. 2.7 diesel
LR, Indies and my own engineers here at DEUTZ (inventor of 4 stroke cycle) and no one can find route cause of the problem. Despite searching through the site I can not find a fix.
In last 2 years it as had a new Heavy duty battery, all glow plugs were changed (very costly as they had sheared and had to be drilled out - body off job), a new battery charger (it failed anyway), I have had all glow plugs and wiring rechecked, injector leaks fixed, new engine map from LR (this summer in anticipation of winter with instruction to reactivate the Fuel burner), I have put our Fuel additive cleaner into the tank to kill any bug or absorb water in system and again soon as it drops below 0deg, it is a pig to start with the grey smoke, lumpy engine for 10 -15 seconds, then fine all day. At or above 0 perfect start (morning or night after a couple of days at standstill). In the evening after 8 hours at work at sub zero temps she starts fine too, so its a 12 hour plus problem at sub zero or its scared of the dark!
How & why can 1 degree make that much difference? Answer is it can, but if it were something like glow plug's would it, my understanding is temp just affects how long they stay on for?
To help (as advised by others) I find if I allow the engine diagnostic check / glow plug lamp to cycle 2 or 3 times and hold the cranking and when it starts to fire give a little throttle with no sudden peddle movements it usually does the trick. But not always, 1 twitch of the leg at the wrong time and cuts out
Remote operation of the pre-heater from Bell Auto's looks good but by the time I look into doing it mild weather comes again. Also I am sure it keeps locking out anyway, so would be waste of more money.
Sorry I know its a long message but I have been through lots of searches (each winter), I have raised it before with no fix apparent and if it goes mild it takes a while for the trial to fail. Its getting more common too looking at some recent threads.
If you hear or know of a fix please let me know. My neighbours look at me like I am mad going through my warm up ritual - may have to try sacraficing a virgin but not too many of those these days (No JS jokes please!)
Cheers
25th Jan 2013 5:11 pm
pinhead
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 877
probably the temp sensor that the engine uses to decide how long to run the glow plugs for and how much excess deisel to push through
how long does glow plug light take to go off in -1 conditions mine seems to take for ever longer than any other modern car i have had and it strugles to start if i get bored and dont wait till it is outClub original turbo
161k and counting
general AT's, oval timer, blanked egr's, silicone intercooler hose's
Hi thanks for reply and sorry for not responding earlier been out in the snow.
Anyway, I always wait for light to go out and when sub zero give it 2 or 3 goes before attempting start. Lamp stays on for a few3 or 4 seconds when sub zero, maybe 1 second when 0 and above. Puzzles me and experts but it does not seem to. Be unique to me.
So doubt it is sensor and definately not my impatience.
25th Jan 2013 11:28 pm
pinhead
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 877
3-4 seconds is not enough I will time mine when I get up bet it stays on 10+ seconds at -1Club original turbo
161k and counting
general AT's, oval timer, blanked egr's, silicone intercooler hose's
26th Jan 2013 6:31 am
pinhead
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 877
got the phone out and set the stop watch was 8-9 seconds before it went out at 1deg c it stays on longer when sub zero but may struggle to test that for a few days as it is warming up now
so what does ecu use to determine glow plug time
coolant temp sensor
intake air temp sensor (part of mass airflow sensor)
get it pluged into diagnostics before a start on a cold morning and both readings should be no more than a couple of degrees away from ambient
if they are both as they should be then i am not sure where to look next but remember the ecu doesnt just run glow plugs longer but puts in excess fuel as well
as a general with deisel engines poor injector spray pattern can cause starting issues so some good injector cleaner may help (get it put neat into the fuel filter when you change it that way the engine gets a full undiluted shot that slowly dilutes with the rest of the tank as it circulates )Club original turbo
161k and counting
general AT's, oval timer, blanked egr's, silicone intercooler hose's
26th Jan 2013 8:20 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Glowplugs just use the coolant temperature. Not the way I would have designed it but there you go.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 29 Jan 2008
Location: Zalesie
Posts: 289
I had very simlar starting issues couple of years ago. As soon as it got around 0 deg C and below there were sudden cold start issues-had to use webasto prehetaer before attemting to start. As it started to happed after the high pressure fuel pump recall has been executed on the car- i took it back to dealer adn claimed that they must have done something wrong. Firts they did some reflash but it didnot help. Then i left it there overnight-in the morning theynwere not able to start it but apparentlz theyve found some wirng issue and after they fixed it - the problem never appeared again.
Ive tried to get som info from them but they only said that a wire to one of the sensor was broken. I do not know which one. But probably when it is linked to diagnostic in the cold start situation-zhey should be able to see it.2013 D4 TDV6 S; Baltic Blue; IID Tool BT
2007 D3 TDV6 SE, Auto; club Faultmate MSV2
26th Jan 2013 9:52 am
pinhead
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: yorkshire
Posts: 877
sounds like it was the coolant temp sensor wire
robbie does the tdv6 have more than 1 coolant temp sensor like many cars have 1 for the ecu and 1 for the dash ?Club original turbo
161k and counting
general AT's, oval timer, blanked egr's, silicone intercooler hose's
26th Jan 2013 11:56 am
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
There are a number of temp sensors but only the coolant one gets used for cold-start fuelling and glowplug logic.
In my ideal world the system would use the coldest of either the oil temp sensor or coolant sensor and would then add a small weighting for the fuel temperature, a very small weighting for the intake temperature and a tiny weighting for the outside air temp.
This would cover all the options that impact cold starting whilst removing unintentional issues such as block heaters (not UK spec cars) and use of the fuel burning heater as a parking heater (Pete's wonderful device).
For some reason Land Rover does not consult me on such issues; cannot think why!
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8227
There are two temp sensors, one for coolant and one in the sump for oil temp. The one for oil tends to get overlooked and apparently can be changed without losing any oil.
As a temporary measure when the weather is cold mix 10% petrol with the diesel, some manufacturers recommend this in extreme cold climates to overcome starting problems.
Is there a reward for the person who sujests the best solution It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
26th Jan 2013 12:48 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
The D3 HP pump runs at 23,000psi and relies on diesel lubrication so please don't add any petrol.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Thanks for all your input.
I checked glow lamp time and it was on for 3 seconds but back above zero.
I have good independent just down from work I will ask him to do the diagnostic next cold start, it will probably be an evening one which is not a true test, not leaving it outside there over night it will get nicked assuming they can start it.
This sensor wiring issue seems plausible linked to timing as my procedure of 3 cycles will give the 9 seconds and my minor throttling replicates the extra fuelling.
I will print off and show your thoughts to our engineers at work and the garage.
Will let you know how it goes, may be a while yet though as mild weather is back for a while.
I may just invest in the remote heater if nothing else works. I was thinking of swapping after 8 years but reading some of the stories I think better the devil I know. LR is the best in my experience despite the problems.
Cheers
I will not mix some petrol in but I will put the additive in more regular and may also try filter trick at next service.
26th Jan 2013 6:01 pm
kidney wiper
Member Since: 15 Aug 2010
Location: In the Mere
Posts: 87
Have you had the LA303-004/2006 poor cold starting buletin carried out.
applicable to vin 5A300394-6A353440 ?
27th Jan 2013 12:50 pm
Renton
Member Since: 13 Jan 2009
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 1718
kidney wiper wrote:
Have you had the LA303-004/2006 poor cold starting buletin carried out.
applicable to vin 5A300394-6A353440 ?
What does it say and what kind of work is carried out?CLUB ILLEGAL CAR WASHERS
27th Jan 2013 3:50 pm
kidney wiper
Member Since: 15 Aug 2010
Location: In the Mere
Posts: 87
Basically if DTC P0181 is stored there is a software calibration/sensitivity issue between the fuel temp & coolant temp sensor readings.
If this is the case the engine controller software should be upgraded.
Click the link below.
http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/use...lletin.pdf
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scared of the dark!
