Member Since: 21 Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 21
Visiting from the 'Dark Side' (RRS TDV8 2007 vintage) so hope you don't mind my crashing in on this thread.
I have the IID tool and am running the beta software so have the live values options for torque converter and gearbox solenoids 1 to 4.
There is a specific reason for this as I have a weird problem with the transmission whereby when cruising happily along at about 70 ish at inconsistent intervals of anything up to about 40 miles or even longer there is a transmission thump (or even a more alarming bang) the revs fluctuate for a second and then everything goes back to normal.
The reason for having the beta software was to try and isolate the problem. With the torque converter live values showing on the dash it can easily be seen that when the thump happens the TC value changes from 'closed' to 'open and then 'regulated' for a few seconds and then back to 'closed'. So far so good; so I know the thump is the torque converter lock-up clutch letting go suddenly. But is it a purely mechanical problem or is an electro-mechanical problem with the mechatronic?
The TC seems to spend most of its time in the 'regulated' state only changing to 'closed when doing a reasonably high steady speed.
I've tried running with the live solenoid values showing (you can only show one at any one time) and the results are a bit odd. Solenoid 1 changes from 'off' to 'on' at around 30 mph; Solenoid 2 is always 'off'; Solenoid 3 is always 'off' and Solenoid 4 changes from 'off' to 'on' when the car gets up to a decent speed.
So my question is - is this normal? and exactly which solenoids are we looking at here as there are I believe 6 in the gearbox anyway not just 4.
The TC by the way may be gradually failing as there is a bit of a rumbly vibration most noticeable at about 1500 to 2000 revs although it does not seem to slip when under load. But the thump is getting more frequent and occurs at lower speeds now the last big one caused the 'HDC fault - system not available warning' which I haven't seen for a while since trying a few other fixes.
I have already tried all the usual fixes such as new brake light switch and bulbs, transmission fluid change, new battery, cleaning up all the connectors I can find, gearbox adaptations reset and transmission and engine software updates.
I'm interested to know what other people's live values show; assuming anybody else has looked. Or any other ideas of course.
Cheers,
Paddi
12th Sep 2013 12:25 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Hi Paddi and welcome to the forum. None drug dealing and mechanically minded RRS owners are always welcome; especially as they are so rare!
It would be great to have the beta to replicate your shift patterns but I will think about the shift strategy.
Setting aside the data the symptoms suggest a mechanical failure in the TC, but it would be nice to see data from all 6 solenoids.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 21 Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 21
Robbie wrote:
Hi Paddi and welcome to the forum. Non drug dealing and mechanically minded RRS owners are always welcome; especially as they are so rare!
Where did I say I didn't deal drugs? Why else would I want privacy glass
Thanks for the warm welcome; there are a few of us RRS'ers who know one end of a spanner from the other and don't just want to paint our car white and add plastic bits that make it look like a Hoover.
Looking at your solenoid info (pretty similar to what I've seen in my pdf copy of the LR manual) I wonder if Gap D only put in live data for 1 to 4 because 5 and 6 are inactive nearly all the time.
I've had two well known transmission specialists (Bristol Transmission and Stephens Engineering) test drive it and neither of them was sure if it is just the TC that's got a problem. Bristol thought there might be a problem with the mechatronic but weren't sure. Both were puzzled.
My theory? There could be something causing the solenoid controlling the TC to 'unlock' it at an inappropriate time. Could be low oil pressure or a leaky valve or an electrical problem? This is obviously a problem that existed before I bought the car and over time it has damaged the TC clutch.
My main issue is to make sure that it is fixed once and for all I don't want to have the TC changed and find it is still thumping. And that means a proper diagnosis.
Incidentally the only fault codes that consistently come up are:
Body: B1B70 - local interconnection network bus circuit 2
Instrument pack: U0132 - lost communication with ride level control
Transfer case: U0101 - lost communication with TCM (with engine running this one comes up even after clearing all the faults and then scanning again without even moving the car)
What fun,
Cheers, Paddi
12th Sep 2013 3:30 pm
Martin Site Admin and Owner
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18452
Posts split to new thread 06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
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12th Sep 2013 5:09 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Thanks Martin.
Comm errors are par the course for the D3/RRS family, so I think you are right to focus on other things.
Kinda feel like we only have some of the data though and it could be a solenoid issue causing poor quality shifts, but if the shifts are really bad it usually throws up a code.
This has me puzzled and I know there are additional transmission tests and protocols on the dealer's machine. Given the cost of a new TC it could be an investment to have some diagnostic time. Before that I hope the wider forum intelligentsia could offer an idea.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
I've been reading my TC status live value quite a bit and also occasionally the solenoid valves.
The TC status, I've worked out 95% sure, that the values read are feedback from the TC and not the request. This seems to have been confirmed here.
What I've noted on mine, is that I'll only every see it lock up when in 5th or 6th as a rule - lower gears only when going up a hill and giving it a little more stick - or when the oil is colder.
I've also noticed that in Drive, it will drop out of locked when you back off the throttle - whereas if you are in command shift 6th, then it will stay locked up - you can also see the revs change less, confirming this. I also see a small decrease in fuel consumption - 1-2mpg
As for the solenoid values, the chart you post here is interesting, as I've only seen a couple of the values change - but as it is to do with torque, perhaps that is why.
I'm pretty sure the TC is not working correctly - though I will look again at the solenoid valves and try and see if it is the mechatronic unit playing up. The reason being that I can accelerate fairly hard and the TC doesn't lock up - it can get to 3rd and still be slipping. Backing off the throttle and waiting, and it will "Regulate" and start to lock.
If I'm not so hard, then it will regulate and accelerate normally.Mark.
2006, D3 SE Auto - gone but not forgotten.
2014 BMW 530d M Sport Tourer.
1977 Triumph Spitfire 1500
_________________________________________________
Disco Picture Website Here
12th Sep 2013 6:31 pm
Paddi
Member Since: 21 Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 21
Thanks Anglefire,
Looks as if we both need more live value information from other users who don't have a problem with their TCs. All contributions gratefully received.
I'm probably going to follow the suggestion of having the diagnostics looked at by a dealer if their kit has more functionality.
One more little nugget of information regarding my DTCs: 'B1B70 local interconnection network bus circuit two'. There are only two circuits on the local interconnect network bus. One controls the rain sensor, sunroof and seat position memory and the other controls the backup sounder for the alarm. So I'm guessing any fault with either of these is not connected to the transmission symptoms and B1B70 can therefore be ruled out.
16th Sep 2013 12:56 pm
Paddi
Member Since: 21 Aug 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 21
Well here is a quick update.
Took the car to LR Dealer for a diagnostics check and their T4 kit didn't show up any DTCs in addition to those listed above found by my IID Tool.
So if you have a IID tool don't expect the T4 to show up anything additional when it comes to the transmission.
The only additional functionality that the dealer kit has is data logging (for 17 parameters). So it might be interesting to go back for another visit so that the T4 can be connected and then I go for an extended drive - long enough for the transmission thump to occur and then look back at the data log.
The only suggestion the LR tech could suggest was a transmission double flush but considering I have already had a drain and refill and pan and filter change without any improvement plus the old oil was apparently in good condition and the car's mileage is low (38k) I doubt this would be worth the expense.
It was a nice little 25 mile trip to my chosen LR dealer on a mix of B roads and decent dual carriageways with little traffic so I had the opportunity of doing a few WOT accelerations using the kick down and the car stormed up to illegal speeds changing gear smoothly and on shutting the throttle it slowed down dropping cleanly down the box. Just get the occasional hard thump on light throttle which seems to occur at just above 70 mph in 6th gear and sometimes a light thump accelerating very gently from about 10 mph. Plus of course the droning vibration at about 1500 revs which I believe to be from the TC.
Not sure where to go from here but I think I want the TC changed and the mechatronic fully checked out.
26th Sep 2013 4:37 pm
H16UUP
Member Since: 01 Dec 2012
Location: Stockport
Posts: 271
Someone say RRS?
Just Disco3 in drag
26th Sep 2013 9:45 pm
James1974
Member Since: 23 Nov 2017
Location: Stevenage
Posts: 990
Trying to check my live values of the solonoids and they don’t match this pic
For instance in park and neutral 2,4 and 5 are active and in second 1,2,3,4 and 5 are active
Using a iid tool
Trying so solve a harsh shifting problemDisco 3 gone but not forGotten
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