countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
  
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They have to pay the VAT at the end of January and the customer has probably only paid a £1K deposit, so they would have to fund the VAT. I guess if you opted to pay the full amount up front they wouldn't mind. Also if it's on finance they invoice the finance company who would be reluctant to have an early invoice and not be able to get the monthly payments from the "borrower" until it's delivered.
Probably too much hassle for them to be honest
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 15th Oct 2009 12:53 pm |
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SJR
Member Since: 09 Aug 2006
Location: East Manchester
Posts: 4030
  
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Because they are too lazy to establish the facts on what is/is not possible  I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
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| 15th Oct 2009 12:54 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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slots wrote:So why aren't the dealers prepared to do it?
Two obvious reasons: (a) they have all been using it to push sales in this last quarter and (b) cash flow - they have to account for the difference between VAT Outputs & Inputs within a month of each quarter end.
The issue of LR invoicing them is a total bum steer  - you don't have to match your VAT outputs with inputs at all - indeed most businesses simply can't as there is not an identifiable item involved.
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| 15th Oct 2009 12:59 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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countrywide wrote:They have to pay the VAT at the end of January and the customer has probably only paid a £1K deposit, so they would have to fund the VAT.
Probably too much hassle for them to be honest
Countrywide - they will only have to pay quarterly vat at the end of Jan IF their vat quarter ends on 31/12; some dealers may have quarters ending on other months in which case the vat on their vat invoices rendered in December would not have to be paid until end of Feb or March!! 
No reason for them not dealing with the cash flow issue by just offering to render a December invoice against a larger deposit (vat will be £6k'ish in most cases)
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| 15th Oct 2009 1:28 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
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Your right December is only worst case as a VAT quarter, if it's later then there is no excuse.
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| 15th Oct 2009 1:47 pm |
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slots
Member Since: 30 Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 333
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Fortunately our first has been delivered and the second is on its way to the dealer as we speak and their cash sales but the dealer was going on about how they're all fearing January as they think their retail sales of new cars will go through the floor.
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| 15th Oct 2009 2:54 pm |
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SJR
Member Since: 09 Aug 2006
Location: East Manchester
Posts: 4030
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slots wrote:.... but the dealer was going on about how they're all fearing January as they think their retail sales of new cars will go through the floor.
I think it should have said this 
slots wrote:.... but the dealer was going on about how they're all fearing January as they think they will have to offer an additional 2.5% discount, or sales of new cars will go through the floor.
I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
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| 15th Oct 2009 2:57 pm |
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tanters
Member Since: 24 Oct 2007
Location: Oireland
Posts: 4287
 
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Sorry Ecosse , missed this
I'll grab a price list today if I can and get you some idea of what we'd be paying if we didnt buy our stuff from TLO  A happy childhood ... is the worst possible preparation for life.
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| 16th Oct 2009 8:47 am |
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V8NOT
Member Since: 04 Dec 2007
Location: near Bath
Posts: 37
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Perhaps another reason is that the dealers simply know already that Landrover will have to reduce the cost price to keep the on the road price the same and are simply using this as a fear factor to drive sales into this quarter?
Maybe Landrover will offer some other options in January. such as:
- include extras to the retail value of the VAT increase (their cost will be negligable, and maybe this is why they left a few choice things like adaptive lights off the HSE?)
- zero rate finance on a more normal 3 year options type deal
- higher GFV
- an SE variant!
Or perhaps they will simply let the dealers deal with it if they want to? V8NOT - because it's a diesel of course!
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| 16th Oct 2009 4:30 pm |
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kevi
Member Since: 18 Mar 2006
Location: in the rhondda valleys
Posts: 945
 
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Just read that vat is going back up to 171/2% on january 1st.
If so how will this affect d4 sales if orded now but delivered after that date, witch rate would i pay ? Practice safe eating - always use condiments.
2 Too many seats now
No trouble so far
tow pack, tasmods sills
IT goes without saying that you should never have more children than you have car windows
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| 12th Nov 2009 4:38 pm |
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SJR
Member Since: 09 Aug 2006
Location: East Manchester
Posts: 4030
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http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic40379.html?highlight=vat I believe that every human has a finite number of heart-beats. I don't intend to waste any of mine running around doing exercises.
Buzz Aldrin (1930 -
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| 12th Nov 2009 4:50 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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merged 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 12th Nov 2009 8:04 pm |
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bellautos
Member Since: 02 Feb 2006
Location: NorthYorkshire
Posts: 2532
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Ive just been on to my dealers to buy a new D4, simlar to the rest of you i was told about Febuary delivery time 
But i may as well wait untill March and get a 2010 car than 28 days before getting a 2009 car.
I also asked about the VAT, i offerd to pay for the car today and pay 15%vat, they said they can not take my payment because landrover will not invoice them untill the vin number has been created and that will be in january.
My vat return will run 1-12-09 to 28-2-2010 so in one return ive got 2 vat limits to deal with, which to me isnt a problem.
I do this every quater with EU and non EU sales, same deal realy.
I dont have a problem with doing all the that my self so i cant understand why landrover do.
Also what gets me is, why should i be penilised with a rase of 2.5% vat when i want a car today that they cant provide.they should at least take my money today at 15% , pay it to the vat man.
When they actualy buy my car at 17.5% pay the bill and claim it back.
Its a win win situation for them as i see it.
I might go buy a X5 today instead lol
Pete
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| 14th Nov 2009 5:04 pm |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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Off you go then............ 2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 14th Nov 2009 9:12 pm |
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Smarticus
Member Since: 01 Jan 2005
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 655
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Pete - The dealers wont take the risk of losing out on the VAT. Many of them will have had their fingers badly burned with VAT problems in the past (such as the disability dodge which came back to bite). LR themselves wont take unnecessary risks with VAT as in such a low margin / high gross cost environment 2.5% is a serious threat. And HMR&C wont clarify what they will and will not accept. They are prepared to quote the rules on tax points - but will then refer to the overriding principle that if the tax payer deliberately and artifically contrives to avoid a higher tax cost - then HMR&C has the right to pursue the tax payer for any apparent shortfall in tax. I guess the dealers aren't confident that the customer would agree to reimburse the extra 2.5% should it arise, and I guess LR arent confident that the dealer will reimburse it either.
So the secret is simply to haggle harder but on parts of the deal that LR and the Dealer and the customer can actually control - VAT probably isn't one of those areas right now.
An X5 ! - that would be like taking a rather sharp knife to your nose Disco 4 TDV6HSE
Defender 200TDi CSW
RR Evoque
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| 15th Nov 2009 9:13 am |
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