Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Just to flag up that VAT reverts to 17.5% (unless Mr Darling decrees otherwise  ) - or possibly more than 17.5%  bearing in mind that we have one of the lowest vat rates in the EU - on 1 January .
Many LR dealers have been using this deadline to push sales through this year, which is fine, but will this result in a disproportionate number of late 2009 reg cars that might have otherwise been spread into early 2010, and then possibly a consequent drop in sales demand at the start of 2010  . And the future value of a Dec 2009 car, looking at past values, may be £1000+ less than a Jan 2010 registered one 
Does anyone know what LR's approach is going to be to the retail prices for January onwards ? :-
Just increase the VAT & therefore the final vehicle cost  (not sure if the market will stand that for what many members have commented seems to be an already overpriced car),
or
Will they adjust the pre-vat pricing so that the final vehicle cost remains the same as currently for the retail customer,
or
Will they operate some interim price support offer on a temporary basis to ease sales through the tax increase?
Opinions, info on what other manufacturers are doing, and, even better still, informed views from those "in the know" with LR:lol: anyone?
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 9th Oct 2009 9:28 am |
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tanters
Member Since: 24 Oct 2007
Location: Oireland
Posts: 4287
  
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When ye brought yours down from 17.5% to 15%, we thought it a good idea to bring ours up from 21% to 21.5% !
neither seemed to have worked A happy childhood ... is the worst possible preparation for life.
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| 9th Oct 2009 9:43 am |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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tanters wrote:When ye brought yours down from 17.5% to 15%, we thought it a good idea to bring ours up from 21% to 21.5% !
Might be interesting to let GB members have an idea of some of the retail pre & post vat prices in Ireland, ifyou have any details?
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| 9th Oct 2009 9:52 am |
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Tygelert
Member Since: 16 Sep 2009
Location: Utah
Posts: 38
  
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On the price list that was first circulated on this site pre release, the formulas worked out the cost of the car then adjusted the base value so the final price was the same wether it was 17.5% or 15%, I think your going to see LR offer to take the cost of the VAT rise on the chin.
Well Hoping so cause Im about to order one that will probably not be delivered till post xmas. LR4 2010 HSE LUX
LR3 2005 SE
Previous
Discovery 4 2009 HSE - Press Launch Vehicle
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| 9th Oct 2009 9:39 pm |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Tygelert wrote: I think your going to see LR offer to take the cost of the VAT rise on the chin.
Other way of looking at that would be that LR have been getting the advantage of the reduction of VAT for the first few months of the Disco4
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| 10th Oct 2009 5:50 am |
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ad15
Member Since: 14 Dec 2008
Location: up that tree
Posts: 4866
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at least they're still in business.....
not sure why there is disgruntlement at LR making a bit more for a few months one wife.......livid
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| 10th Oct 2009 7:21 am |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50978
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Ecosse wrote:- or possibly more than 17.5% bearing in mind that we have one of the lowest vat rates in the EU?
Given the general opinion of most at the time that it "wouldn't make any difference" and was a "useless action to apply" ...I do find it strange that some are worrying about it going back up...in fact if reducing it by 2.5% "wouldn't make any difference" then putting it to 20% surely can't make any difference either. You can't have it both ways
I saved nearly a grand thanks to it when I bought the D3 last December  21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 10th Oct 2009 7:49 am |
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Ecosse
Member Since: 07 Jan 2005
Location: Grampian, Scotland
Posts: 889
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Just had an interesting chat with the VAT office helpline 0845-010 9000 and they have referred me to Sections 14 & 30 of the VAT Guide
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalW..._CL_001596
According to the advisor at HMRC (& the guide), provided 4 criteria are satisfied ie that the car buyer is not related to the dealer, not getting the purchase price advanced to them by the dealer, pays within 6 months & the value is not over £100k. then the dealer can invoice the buyer in December & does not need to get payment, (but the dealer will have to account for vat & if their vat quarter ends on 31/12 then they would have to pay by 31 Jan - however this could be covered by the deposit paid?) and the vehicle can then be delivered later & paid for.
When I pointed out that car manufacturers & dealers were pushing for 31/12 registration & asked if the vat issue was just being used as a marketing ploy, this was not disputed by the vat office!
If this is the case, then those looking to buy Disco 4's and being told that there are shortages for Dec delivery & vat goes up if not registered by then, are being mislead as to the correct position.
Can some other members perhaps check on this?, as it may be significant to those purchasing at present!
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| 15th Oct 2009 9:55 am |
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slots
Member Since: 30 Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 333
 
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I can't see the dealer being happy with that. They invoice you in December at 15% for a car that Land Rover invoice them for in Jan or Feb at 17.5%. When I spoke to my dealer about it they stated that they had looked for any loophole but couldn't find one.
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| 15th Oct 2009 10:10 am |
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Calcul@tor
Member Since: 08 Mar 2006
Location: Middle England!
Posts: 810
 
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This is very interesting as I'm being told that an order placed for a D4 now, is very unlikely to arrive until mid/late Jan 2010.
A) Is anyone being quoted earlier delivery dates?
B) Can anyone confirm / clarify this VAT position?
Many thanks D4 XS MY12 Galway
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| 15th Oct 2009 11:37 am |
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Winger
Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
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Factory orders seem to be running at about 10 weeks from date of order to build - plus another couple of so to clear QC and get delivered to the dealer. So say 12-13 weeks all in.
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| 15th Oct 2009 12:01 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
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slots wrote:I can't see the dealer being happy with that. They invoice you in December at 15% for a car that Land Rover invoice them for in Jan or Feb at 17.5%. When I spoke to my dealer about it they stated that they had looked for any loophole but couldn't find one.
It makes no odds to the dealer as they just claim back the 17.5% anyway on the Land Rover invoice, it is the outgoing invoice, which is important to them.
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| 15th Oct 2009 12:10 pm |
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slots
Member Since: 30 Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 333
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They have to account for that particular vehicle so can't pre-invoice something they don't even have a VAT invoice for from Land Rover. The dealer group we deal with maybe wrong but they say that a number of customers are asking the same question and they can't do it. However, if they can pursaude LR to invoice them in Dec for a car that arrives in Jan then it should be fine.
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| 15th Oct 2009 12:23 pm |
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countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
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The outgoing invoice has nothing to do with an incoming invoice, they don't have to be matched in a specific VAT quarter. It is quite common to invoice in advance of manufacturing something. Think about holidays for example, you pay up front for something in the future, the VAT is calculated and paid at time of invoice not at the time the holiday is taken.
Obviously you have to account for the vehicle at some stage in the books, but not in the same quarter,
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| 15th Oct 2009 12:29 pm |
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slots
Member Since: 30 Oct 2007
Location: Here
Posts: 333
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So why aren't the dealers prepared to do it?
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| 15th Oct 2009 12:49 pm |
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