Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Hi mate
Indeed and totally agree about rabbit holes, lol, just thought I would at least get some info just in case I need it
Here’s that boost temperature live data from the other night , is at 23c
See the throttle egr inlet wires tees into the turbo actuator near the ecm, then wires carry onto the turbo actuator itself , know u mentioned how important the MAP sensor is and will of course get round to cleaning it when the new iAT sensor turns up
Can’t thk u enough as always for the fantastic help and explanations , bits have been posted and should be here by next week
Hope the live data is what u was after , these readings are after around 15-20 x mins
Also another live data readings I took on the same night , plus wondering if it would be best to take some live data of that boost temperature with the engine cold to see how it compares
Edit , this is from near cold
6th Dec 2021 5:52 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4628
Well your boost temp sensor looks to be working fine. You're always better to wait until you have a diagnosis before you throw your wallet in the ring.
The other thing I have just noticed though is your "supplementary engine coolant temp", that's way off the scale Gary and should be in +0 figures. I'm not sure where the ECM gets that from but I presume it's the Coolant temp sensor. (someone else might know) The only other observation is that your boost temperature does look a bit high for an engine that's at idle! There may be ambient variations which explain it but that boost temp is what I'd expect to see if you were booting it at 50+ mph, not at idle.
I'll have a rummage and see if I can dig up some live values for comparison. Can't get near any cars for you tonight as everything is locked down as we await the mother of winter Atlantic storms.
Apparently we're in for a damn good battering! yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
6th Dec 2021 7:52 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4628
Have a look here Gary just for a comparison, this was a fully warmed up engine after a hard 25k drive. (all my test drives are 25k, hard, and always the same route )
Note the supplementary engine coolant temp which always seems to start out on a cold engine at around +40 degC, and rises as in the screen shot above. I don't think I've ever managed to get it past 125 degC
It might not have any bearing on your issue but just be aware of it.
Click image to enlarge
yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
7th Dec 2021 2:50 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Many thanks as always and will have a good read through it , indeed know what u mean with regards to throwing parts at a problem , I learnt many years ago when I started doing boilers and came across part changers in the hope of finding the fault without diagnosis
But of course when it comes to the disco I hold my hands up in not knowing of how everything works and extremely grateful as always for the awesome help , can’t thank u enough
Have got some manuals which show all the sensors plus some wiring diagrams , seems the turbo is working but engine doesn’t know it is , was weird I couldn’t make it happen again, just the underboost , did also get my air filter changed , think it was a mahle as well
Will see what I can find and thks for the data as a comparison, very helpful and what I can find
Wonder if the Supplementary engine coolant temperature is something to do with the FBH ?? , plus mine being a base model hasn’t got the rear heater
More importantly, Hope u stay safe and well mate with the incoming storm , Plse let us know all is well
Thks again and will come back if I can get hold of some more info , seems like there’s just a bad wire , somewhere in the mist of the gods with hide and seek
Last edited by gstuart on 7th Dec 2021 1:20 pm. Edited 1 time in total
7th Dec 2021 9:52 am
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Have been searching and wondering if someone knows which ecm connector is which please , think it should be C0411 C0872 and C02518 , or are they marked on each connector please , assume I’ll have to remove the back cover after cutting the small cable tie to get the actual PIN numbers , just don’t know which connector is which , found an online picture and as always would be very grateful
Many thks
Click image to enlarge
7th Dec 2021 1:15 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Alas still can’t find any info about the Supplementary engine coolant temperature
Will do another live data test from stone cold, with just the ign on and then engine running to see how that Supplementary engine coolant temperature compares
Also ordered 2 x cans of electrical cleaner and a can of silicone spray for the turbo actuator arm, even though it’s moving want to double check it’s performing full travel
Thks again
7th Dec 2021 2:23 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4628
You need to get all the basic checks done first Gary before you start pulling the wiring apart. One or two test drive cycles is nowhere near enough to justify ripping into it.
As I mentioned earlier, check the condition of the MAP sensor/plug/wires and that it's free from clogging. Get a rod onto the turbo actuator and move it back and forth to satisfy yourself it is completely free in its travel.
You must to do further test drives as well before condemning anything. So clear the codes, go for a 10 - 15 mile run and then check the fault codes. Note them and do another test run, but give her plenty of stick, as this will vary the operating conditions of the engine, and you're likely to get a better reflection of what's going on.
Then do it all again, and keep doing it until you are at the point where the stored fault is recurrent and consistent. If the ECM fault codes keep changing you need to keep testing until you have whittled it down.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
7th Dec 2021 4:45 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Hi mate
Many thks and indeed will do all those basic checks first , I really hope that touching the ecm will be the last thing I need to check as that looks a complete nightmare
When I tested it the other night with the gap iid update I did give it a good amount of stick, all that came up that time was under boost , the other codes never came back , so indeed the codes changed
Once the new bits have arrived I’ll clean the map first with some contact cleaner, then give it another test run, then the turbo actuator and so on, just so then I can fault find one item at a time , suppose my thinking is if I do loads of things and then test drive it I won’t know what items caused a particular code
Handy as I Still have the rod I made up when the turbo actuator was stuck after I just bought the disco , that was a broken jubilee clip on the turbo, code P132 I think
Hopefully ur not banging ur head on the desk ,lol, but will of course follow ur instructions to the letter as no point asking and then ignoring them
As a side note and a can of worms, was called to help an engineer who was working on an oil boiler, wouldn’t fire up, walked into the utility room to find he had stripped the entire burner apart , wiring centre as well opened and wires everywhere
Asked him did u do basic checks to which he said yes , I walked out to the oil tank, yep u guessed it, they had run out of oil, took me around 4 x hours to put it all back together , so understand where ur coming from, basics first
Honestly though mate I can’t thank u enough , am so grateful for the guidance and will of course let u know how things go
Ps, as urs is a 2009 and mine a 2005 I wonder if that Supplementary engine coolant temperature reading is why it’s different , but of course no point worrying about it until I get the other codes resolved
Thks again
7th Dec 2021 5:09 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 196
Just a thought, if you feel a vibration at 55mph could it be the rear prop centre bearing is on the way out. Might be worth a quick look/check of both prop shafts, make sure there are no loose bolts or worn joints.
11th Dec 2021 4:05 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Hi kev
Many thks, Must admit haven’t done anything as it’s been to cold plus the usual with my back giving me grief so just been waiting for a better day , plus keep meaning to get a car creeper as I think that will make life easier
Sorry am waffling , lol, that’s a great idea and will indeed add that to my list of checks
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 196
Hey mate! I know the misery of back issues, look after yourself! A car is just a pile of metal bits that can be fixed/replaced.
A creeper is a great investment. I have one, used it before I bit the bullet and bought a 4 post lift. I still use it to, great for getting under the tractor and digger if I need to. The one in the link looks alright, they are all much the same I suspect. If I remember well mine was an Aldi special. Maybe you should check out Screwfix and Machine Mart as well, something for all budgets.
Cheers.
11th Dec 2021 5:20 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Sorry to hear that kev, seems many of us here suffer with back issues , alas don’t think lifting a series 3 gearbox to change the clutch helped or lifting cast iron boilers , something had to give in the end , lol
Liked that creeper because it having a head rest and suppose not bad for £50 to make like easier ,many thks and indeed will check them out
Ah the luxury of a 4 post lift , can just imagine one on my drive , alas don’t think the neighbours would be too pleased
Indeed and ur so right , have just waited as I thought no point working in the rain / cold, next week is supposed to be better , then I’ll check the props , clean Map sensor , ensure turbo actuator is operating full travel , then give it another run for some more live data and go from there , at least then doing one thing at a time I’ll be able to establish the single thing that was causing the issue
Still waiting for the new iAT sensor , plus I noticed the new Map sensors have larger holes which I assume is to reduce them blocking , mine should only need a clean as it’s working on live data
Apologises I’m waffling as per usual
Thks again
11th Dec 2021 5:37 pm
classic kev
Member Since: 12 Feb 2021
Location: Mold
Posts: 196
You might be interested to know my 4 post has wheels, you can move it around. I have used it this way but certainly better bolted to the floor
11th Dec 2021 5:44 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
Oh don’t tell me that , lol , I’ll get my tow rope , shouldn’t take too long from mold , snigger
11th Dec 2021 5:45 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13613
So spent a couple of hours taking parts off for cleaning, ie, Maf, Map, throttle body , etc, was last cleaned in 2017 after blanking the egrs
Was just curious to see what resistance I would get on the Maf sensor , it looked dirty so will just spray it with some contact cleaner as looks very delicate
won’t change it as to be honest haven’t got anything to compare it with , plus get live data from the iid, will just reinstall it after cleaning , just wished to share the readings
Maf sensor readings
Pin 1 ) red/blue
Pin 2) red
Pin 3) white / yellow
Pin 4) Black
Had to order 2 x new EGR pipe clamps that are near the throttle body , so got to now spray and check the turbo actuator arm is free then reinstall everything for another live data test run
Few pics inside the Maf body and Map sensor , plus if it helps anyone how to get the air temperature sensor out
Will update this thread after it’s all back together ,
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