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Iona Disko
Member Since: 04 Jul 2008
Location: NE
Posts: 286
  
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| Viscous fan on 4.4 V8 - permanently engaged... |
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Not having much luck at the moment.
Took the car to local specialist to have an oil change and the alternator belt changed and seem to have a few more problems that I bargained for...
The belt could not be replaced as the fan was stubborn in its refusal to be removed. The vehicle is booked in again for a second round with the mechanic but it now seems to be malfunctioning - the fan operates all the time for no aparent reason.
I am wondering what standard garage practice is when a component fails or is damaged while being removed. Who would normally pay for the damaged part?
I can understand if it is an old vehicle and something is rusted together but on a relatively new vehicle such problems must be preventable I hope?
If my fan has been damaged should I expect to have to pay for it? I only wanted a belt replaced and that cost a matter of a few quid. Now I might be faced with a much larger bill.
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 11th Oct 2008 11:28 pm |
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Bodsy
Site Sponsor
Member Since: 06 Nov 2006
Location: In the Clubhouse
Posts: 21361
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Car specialist or LR specialist...?
The fan needs a special tool to remove it, or very thin Spanner.
I think it locks the spindle whilst you use another spanner to undo it (ISTR) Bodsys Brake Bible
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| 12th Oct 2008 3:23 am |
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BLFarrar
Member Since: 02 Aug 2006
Location: Deepest, Dankest, Darkest, Dingiest......Le Halifax, West Yorkshire...with strong links to Ireland
Posts: 6222
 
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| Re: Viscous fan on 4.4 V8 - permanently engaged... |
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Iona Disko wrote:I can understand if it is an old vehicle and something is rusted together but on a relatively new vehicle such problems must be preventable I hope?
If my fan has been damaged should I expect to have to pay for it? I only wanted a belt replaced and that cost a matter of a few quid. Now I might be faced with a much larger bill.
Viscous fans have a couple of failure modes:
1. It loses the small amount of silicone fluid - usually the drive will seize up which means it isn't a torque limiting fan anymore it drives all the time - gives engine cooling airflow at all speeds instead of slipping at higher road speeds - it fails safe.
2. On air sensing type of viscous fan - the air sensing fails in such a way that it transfers the silicone into fan drive mode - gives engine cooling airflow at all speeds instead of slipping at higher road speeds - again failing safe.
This goes for most makes of Viscous fan drive (I believe the Disco 3 one is an Aisin)
Most fan drives passenger & commercial vehicle viscous fan drives aren't user serviceable - they are "rolled" together, you destroy the parts getting in bits, you also need the special blend & precise amount of silicone fluid to refill & it has to be done in clean room conditions. There is no user or dealer maintenance except for keeping the air sensing coil on the front of the fan "clear"
Usually a busted fan drive goes in the bin
you may be shocked as to how un-cheap these are.
These are a good part to get from a breakers yard BREXIT - done properly.
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| 12th Oct 2008 6:41 am |
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AndrewS
Tarquin of the Desert
Member Since: 06 May 2005
Location: Y...... because I can
Posts: 10438
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On the tdv6 there is a special tool that hooks over 2 of the 3 pulley nuts. I made one out of 2.5mm thick plate. I think the fan has a reverse thread where it's attached to the pulley. I expect this is why they could not remove it. In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded.
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| 12th Oct 2008 7:00 am |
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colinm
Member Since: 06 Oct 2008
Location: Derbyshire
Posts: 47
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I changed one or two over the years and did one on a 5 series beamer recently - which incidentally had a coiled up bimetalic element as the temperature sensor that screwed a threaded plunger in and out to increase/decrease the viscous coupling. Unfortunately this certainly has a fail-dangerous option as I found out 
A replacement was about 40 quid from my local factors. Yes, its a left hand thread and if you can get enough grip on the pulley via the fan belt then you can get it off without a thin spanner but if you can't you will need a thin spanner to hold the pulley while you undo the fan (mine was B... tight but I did it without the thin spanner in the end). Life is made a lot easier by removing the fan itself from the coupler - watch out for torx headed screws here.
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| 12th Oct 2008 10:22 am |
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busaboy74
Member Since: 17 Aug 2008
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 310
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Bit of a minefield this one.
I deal with a lot of this type of situation with our dealers when it happens with customers and it will all pivot on why the coupling broke. Did the dealer break it due to incompentance or was it faulty already, as you can guess no body will want to admit fault.
If you argue with the dealer he may just charge for the parts as he had to remove/replace the coupling anyway during the work, he should have called you when the fault happened to confirm with you that it was alright to replace though. (especially with land rovers as people tend to have lots of spares at home.)
I would not consider it strange to replace this part after a few years, works very hard and is suseptable to damage when wading in water.
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| 12th Oct 2008 10:31 am |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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Its not a viscous fan
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| 12th Oct 2008 5:08 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50947
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Is it an electric fan controlled by the komputer   21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 12th Oct 2008 5:10 pm |
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10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
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no and yes 
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| 12th Oct 2008 5:13 pm |
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DG
Site Moderator
Member Since: 12 Dec 2005
Location: The Gaff
Posts: 50947
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Ok ok ...I'll give you the full technical schpeel I found on here from some other chap 
10forcash wrote:
Note: the fan isn't a true 'viscous' fan, it has an electrical clutch and speed sensor, the fan duty is controlled by a PWM signal as part of a closed loop feedback circuit.
 21 year LR veteran > D2 GS 2003 > D3 S 2006 > D3 HSE 2009 > D4 HSE 2013 > D4 HSE 2015 > D5 HSE 2018 > DS HSE R-Dynamic P300e 2021
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| 12th Oct 2008 5:19 pm |
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