1) if powder coat was the best finish for alloy coating / protection its what vehicle & vehicle component makers (& not just Land Rover) would use to finish wheels.....& they don't
2) talk to the better wheel re-finishers - they don't use Powder - not just because they don't have the simple powder plant or the electrostatic systems - its the durability of the finish that most of them are concerned with.
3) wheels that require refinishing need to be bead blasted (not sand) & powder coat doesn't key into sand or far that matter bead treated alloy.
4) get a wheel powder coated & the finish is like a candy coating - it just needs to be disrupted & its surface broken & moisture / salts from normal road use get into the interstitial space. this holds the damaging liquid in the area it can do most harm.
5) This liquid then causes an electrolytic action that "creeps" - if you peel the coating back (which is really easy) the surface of the alloy that has suffered isn't clean metal, its got a "dusty" surface even when rubbed off - it shows the base alloy metal has gone through a change of state it isn't corrosion.....its an erosion process - a chemical reaction.
Over recent years I have to refinish wheels (of my own) for aesthetic results & other engineering components for structural requirements. I have tried various powder coat systems (from cheap & cheerful to full blown electrostatic deposition systems) without any result that overcomes the effect described above.
I also had the benefit of seeing one mass production process (Montupet, Dunmurry, N.Ireland) for wheels & spoke to the process & materials technologists who specified & actually ran the finishing processes, who then explained what I had experienced, confirming just why powder wasn't used.
Really critical alloys (aerospace / defense components) are non-anodic chemically treated (usually irridite process) & then painted very carefully with a two pack finish that is low baked. This isn't a low cost or "available on the street" process.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
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Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
11th Feb 2009 11:15 pm
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Thanks however that’s only one process and not one we use.
Point 2 I take real exception to as Proper wheel refinishers will Powdercoat most don’t because it’s a longer process, where as “rub grip spray lac†is quicker. But don’t fall into the trap of going to a powdercoaters go to a wheel refurbisher
Ok then real life answers because I’m involved in the process
Powder coat is not New Wheel utopia but as far as refurbishment goes it’s a preferred method to get the best results that last. Normal “Spray†alternatives often have a limited shelf life, and fall into a car dealer area were they want the wheel to look good whilst on the forecourt and longevity really does not factor in.
Powdercoat yes it does peel if broken but the surface is more durable to off road situations as oppose to “Factory†finish wheels, but they are not immune to damage just a little more durable.
There are many reasons why PC is not used as a OEM solution. But we are not talking about NEW we are talking about refinishing alloys that have been damaged.
Quite a few people on this forum have seen the results of the process below.
Damaged Alloy chemically stripped (Not bead/sand Blasted)
Wheel checked for damage and cracks and of course that its round
We reject loads at this stage (Scrap alloy price is at the mo)
Damage is repaired by alloy welding (Not resin)
Wheel turned on lathe to return & make good the wheel to OEM style
Wheel Powdercoated
Tyre mounted we mount the tyre so to ensure the wheel is not damaged
Then Balanced
Returned to vehicle for fitting.
It’s not the only way but from my limited experience it works and the results speak for themselves. It’s a tried and very tested process. I have loads of companies trying to win my business in this area by demonstrating new techniques and we view them with open eyes but have yet to find an alternative
We use multiple processes Powdercoat / Paint / Polish (PITA)
As in all things there are cheaper alternatives but it’s your money. The only real advice is If you want NEW buy NEW
I stress the above is from experience not just because I have to refinish a few of my own
12th Feb 2009 8:48 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
I only wanted my wheels re-finished
Thought it would be a simply choice
12th Feb 2009 9:53 am
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Its simple really
12th Feb 2009 10:39 am
PierreJ
Member Since: 22 Aug 2007
Location: Perth, W.A.
Posts: 448
Ken wrote:
Its simple really
I'll vouch for this, and the solid advice Ken has so freely given.
I apologize if I have hit a nerve.....not intended but my post was from my experience of doing my own & seeing plenty wheels of family & friends, I made the mistake of thinking PC was the business & came unstuck with two sets of wheels one my own from a Volvo the other from a sister-in-laws Porsche...+ I have seen quite a few sets of wheels Powder Coat finished that were mostly worse & rarely better. Besides the peeling problem (that you agree with) the finish "dulls" & doesn't retain the shine of other finishes/paints.
My real life answers are based on having to sort wheels with my own hard earned money...not as a business....I have had the lasting involvement that literally ate away at "my vehicle" investment.
Yes - Powder coat does peel & because its attachment to the alloy substrate is poor it allows water & chemical attack the substrate it degrades "like a cancer"........in my limited but equally valid valid experience it was far far worse than what was OEM "paint" there before & no-where nears as good as what wheels were eventually finished with.
I'm sure that I & others would really like to know the pricing structure comparison between conventional (paint) finishes & powder coat - what is the price premium that justifies it being offered.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
12th Feb 2009 8:02 pm
MacLeod 313
Member Since: 18 Apr 2008
Location: away
Posts: 10723
I have just had 2 Black Alloys refurbed, paid £46 Incl vat, so happy with the results. Powdercoating or a more professional paint job on the alloys would have been better, but you get what you pay for TBH. I just wanted to start off with perfect non blemish Black 19's, but they wont stay that way I am sure when I play, hence why it really is'nt worth paying a fortune if they are for offroading.
For my sins I am part of a company that both powder coats and wet paint parts as well as anodising most of these first as well, admittedly not many wheels as we are not positioned at that point in the market doing more OE than referbs, however here my view on it having produce numerous wheels for show car for people like Ford.
Powder
good points - Tough,
Thick,75-150um
Flexible,
Best for off road durability,
Cheaper as it cover imperfections well,
bad points - Poor corrosion protection if surface cut,
Disc/pad particle will imbed into surface.
Can yellow
Paint
Good point - Wider colour choice, (flip, etc),
Cleans up easier from pad rotor debris,
Polishes must better,
Does not cover up details as paint is thinner 25-75um,
Works over chrome with tints
Used with part machined alloy
Better corrosion performance
Bad points - Epoxies can yellow
Chips more easy,
More expensive, as it's harder to produce,
Clear PU top coat are less brake fluid resistant
I dare say I have forgot a few as well,
For off road wheels I would have powder, and just refurb regularly,
For bing use an two pack epoxy base colour coat with a two pack modified PU top.
"I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you read is not what I meant"
S.Moose
very fair observations & good dataBREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
13th Feb 2009 7:42 am
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
Good data but not from some one who has refurbished over 200 wheels this year
However as SM has rightly pointed out PC is the better route for "Off Road" use
Bruce you have not hit anything This question was about wheel refurb not New Wheels
I'm not here to defend a business as we dont do retail however I have a vested interest as the wheels go on my own cars Private and Business ones.
Not once have I said use me for wheel repairs and I wont because we dont do retail the advice given is general but fitting for the guys on this site as there are many pitfals. I ask you this how do your wheel refurb guys check for cracks, the normal answer is they dont.
I'll post pics in the Wiki over the weekend over the pro's and cons of wheel repairs with ALL the Aftermarket solutions
13th Feb 2009 8:27 am
countrywide
Member Since: 16 Sep 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 6019
My first car was easy, when the wheels looked bad, you painted them with Hammerite, the choice was smooth or hammered finish.
The good thing was you could use the same pot of paint to cover the rust up on the body as well
13th Feb 2009 10:28 am
Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
at the mo)
experience it works and the results speak for themselves. It’s a tried and very tested process. I have loads of companies trying to win my business in this area by demonstrating new techniques and we view them with open eyes but have yet to find an alternative
