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Woes with the wife's TDV6 ...
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Arfa
 


Member Since: 23 Jan 2020
Location: Northampton
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3
Woes with the wife's TDV6 ...

New here. Hope this is the right place for help. A bit involved, but bear with me and I'll give as much detail as I know. Wife bought this D3 a few months back. The day after she got it, it died on the road with symptoms of having run out of diesel, even though it showed a quarter of a tank. Dealer recovered it and had his tame repair outfit fix it. Turned out it had a faulty fuel sensor, which they replaced after apparently having to drop the tank. All ok then for a couple of months and she was well pleased with it. Then, a few weeks back, the parking brake locked on with a fault indication. Got it off by using the emergency release, and removed the high power fuse to make sure that it couldn't try to run until the weather gets a bit better, and we can have the EPB unit off to sort out. Another annoying little 'problem' is the "Normal ride height only" message, but again, as there are no obvious leaks on the air suspension, this too has been left for investigation in better weather. Neither the EPB or suspension errors have caused any problems other than the error messages, and the car has continued to run normally on a daily basis.

Last Sunday, we went out in it and it seemed to be running normally, except at one point, the wife said that it didn't feel quite right - a bit 'chuggy' I think she said, although in the passenger seat I couldn't feel anything wrong. Later on at night, she went out again to take our daughter home. It was pretty cold by then. On a flat piece of dual carriageway, it suddenly went to limp mode with no warning other than "engine system error" warning or something like. She managed to get it to where she was going, and switched off and went in for a few minutes. When she came back out, it restarted and ran just fine, so she drove back home. The next morning she went out on the same road, and in exactly the same place, it again went to limp mode. She got it into a layby a little further on, and turned the engine off. Left it five minutes and restarted. She then continued her journey normally, and came home again a couple of hours later. Went out again still later and all ok. So I did some reading up on these symptoms and fuel filter kept coming up, so my tame mechanic who has looked after all our cars for years and generally knows his stuff, picked one up today and came round tonight to fit it. He started the car and ran it for several minutes before starting the job. After replacing the filter, which seemed a pretty straightforward job, he was expecting to just have to turn the ignition on and off a few times to get some fuel pumped through the new filter, and it would start without further issue. Sadly, that was not to be.

There is no pressure at all - air or fuel - at the bleed valve on the fuel rail at the back of the engine, and no sound of the fuel pump running when the ignition is turned on, which I guess is the reason. But what can have happened ? It ran before the filter was replaced, and has never given any problem starting. I can't believe that the pump has coincidentally died, and I can't see that either of the other two issues can be a factor as they have not interfered with the starting and running to date. The only other thing that he did was to take the ride height up before starting to get some extra body height to get underneath to get at the filter. We have never used anything other than the 'normal' ride height, so could this have caused an issue ? Maybe stressed a connector somewhere or something so there is now no power feed to the LP pump ? Or maybe something else has happened ? Somehow got itself into an immobilised condition ? By the time all this had gone down, it had got cold and dark again. My mechanic chum can't get back until Saturday now, but any help that anyone can suggest to get the thing going again, would be greatly appreciated.

You can talk technical. I'm an (old!) electronics engineer and repair equipment to component level every day, so understand electrics and general car and engine theory, but I'm not a spanner swinger any more, hence my friend who is, doing the work ...

Sorry it's a bit long, but probably best to know the whole story. Thanks in advance for any help anyone who's an expert on these complicated motors, can offer us.
  
Post #211498423rd Jan 2020 1:41 am
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Globetrotter448
 


Member Since: 21 Mar 2017
Location: Londonderry NSW
Posts: 1772

Australia 2007 Discovery 3 4.0 V6 Petrol SE Auto Java BlackDiscovery 3

The normal approach is to obtain some error codes using a reader of some sort as this gives a better idea of the problem. Does the engine turn over, do dashboard lights come on when key is turned, are there any messages on the screen. Has the filter been fitted correctly. All things are guesses until the codes are read.
  
Post #211498523rd Jan 2020 1:56 am
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Hardware
 


Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12676

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4

and welcome aboard !!

As our Australian friend says, having the error codes read would help tremendously in diagnosing this.
 .


Dean
====================================

2011 D4 XS - OBD port protection, RLD spare wheel protector, All LED interiors lights, Timed Climate enabled, iiD tool paired.
2011 D4 Landmark - Stolen from same dealer before I paid for it
2011 D4 GS - Stolen whilst at dealer Sad ... All LED interiors lights, DRLs, Spare Wheel protector.
1996 300Tdi - Eaten by tin worms 
 
Post #211498723rd Jan 2020 5:57 am
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bembo449
 


Member Since: 14 Jan 2020
Location: Gainsborough
Posts: 256


welcome and sorry to read about your issues but as the chaps have already said , post the codes up as without its going to be edjucated stabs in the dark , it could be turbo , injectors , fuel pump . . . . . . . ?
  
Post #211498923rd Jan 2020 6:13 am
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aja4x4
 


Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2459

United Kingdom 2005 Discovery 3 TDV6 SE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

I think this may help your mechanic.

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic130062.html
  
Post #211499023rd Jan 2020 6:18 am
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Hardware
 


Member Since: 28 Jun 2016
Location: Hiding under the M60
Posts: 12676

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 XS Auto Sumatra BlackDiscovery 4

Having had a think about this, I'd be tempted to say the problem may be at the tank end. Already had to have sensor changed ? maybe rest of stuff there is dying OR got disturbed when sensor was being swapped ?
  
Post #211499623rd Jan 2020 6:47 am
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NJSS
 


Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10464

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

Quote:
Wife bought this D3 a few months back
- from a dealer.

How many months might be critical. Was there any warranty ?

You haven't said anything about mileage & service history.

NJSS
 Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.

2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t. 
 
Post #211499823rd Jan 2020 7:16 am
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Motolab
 


Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1815

Netherlands 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Zambezi SilverDiscovery 3

Warranty?? For a 12 year old car? After third party’s had a spanner on it? Zero I presume....
 Best regards
Harold

Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year

Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc. Wink 
 
Post #211502023rd Jan 2020 8:35 am
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NJSS
 


Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10464

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

Quote:
The Consumer Rights Act came into force on 1 October 2015 and covers the purchase of goods, digital content and services including new and used cars from official dealers (it doesn't apply to private sales) as well as servicing, repairs and maintenance work.

Products must be:

Of satisfactory quality
Fit for purpose, and
As described


............

Quote:
if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days.

Between 30 days and 6 months

If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months you’re entitled to a repair, replacement or refund.

It’s assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise.

Unless you’ve agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you’re entitled to a refund.

In the event of a refund following a failed attempt at repair during the first six months the seller may make a 'reasonable' adjustment to the amount refunded to take account of the use that you’ve had of the vehicle.

After 6 months

The burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time of delivery if you want to pursue a claim for repair or replacement.


NJSS
 Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.

2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t. 
 
Post #211502623rd Jan 2020 8:53 am
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Arfa
 


Member Since: 23 Jan 2020
Location: Northampton
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

Globetrotter448 wrote:
The normal approach is to obtain some error codes using a reader of some sort as this gives a better idea of the problem. Does the engine turn over, do dashboard lights come on when key is turned, are there any messages on the screen. Has the filter been fitted correctly. All things are guesses until the codes are read.



Hi and thanks for the response. Understood that fault codes are key to in-depth diagnosis on these - we used to have a D2 - but at this point I have access only to a 'standard' OBD2 analyser which of course doesn't read anything but the most basic codes on these. I was just checking initially that there was no silly trap that we had fallen into replacing the filter. One of those "Did you stand on one leg and twist it two degrees to the left before twenty to the right in order to engage the sensor switch ?" sort of things that only initiates know … Very Happy

Just to be clear. Yes it turns on. Yes all the dash lights come on. Yes, I get the parking brake error message that we always get and I know the reason for. Yes it did start and run just fine twenty minutes before. No, there is no sound of the fuel pump running when the key is turned on. So I guess it's check the electrics time, although I can't imagine what can have happened in twenty minutes with nothing being disturbed except the filter canister ??
  
Post #211503123rd Jan 2020 9:15 am
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NJSS
 


Member Since: 06 May 2009
Location: Catherington, Hampshire.
Posts: 10464

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Waitomo GreyDiscovery 4

Was it purchased less than 6 months ago ?

If so "back to the supplying dealer".

NJSS
 Am I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.

2016 Discovery 4 Landmark
2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
1973 MG B GT V8 - 3.9L John Eales engine, 5 speed R380 gearbox, since 1975.
1959 MGA roadster - 1.9L Peter Burgess Engine - 5 speed gearbox
Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
none Electric or H2 fuel cell - yet.
There are 10 types of people in this world: Those who understand binary, and those who don’t. 
 
Post #211503323rd Jan 2020 9:18 am
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Arfa
 


Member Since: 23 Jan 2020
Location: Northampton
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

aja4x4 wrote:
I think this may help your mechanic.

http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic130062.html


Thanks. That looks like it could be very useful
  
Post #211503423rd Jan 2020 9:18 am
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Arfa
 


Member Since: 23 Jan 2020
Location: Northampton
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

Hardware wrote:
Having had a think about this, I'd be tempted to say the problem may be at the tank end. Already had to have sensor changed ? maybe rest of stuff there is dying OR got disturbed when sensor was being swapped ?


Thanks, and yes, that was my initial feeling, too ...
  
Post #211503623rd Jan 2020 9:21 am
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Arfa
 


Member Since: 23 Jan 2020
Location: Northampton
Posts: 20

United Kingdom 2008 Discovery 3 TDV6 HSE Auto Unknown ColourDiscovery 3

NJSS wrote:
Was it purchased less than 6 months ago ?

If so "back to the supplying dealer".

NJSS


I'd have to check, but I think that boat may have sailed. In any case, I'm not sure that I would want to throw it back on him anyway. He's only a local one man band and she did buy it cheap with no warranty, so we were quite happy when he had the original fuel sensor problem fixed at his own (quite considerable) cost. And to be fair, it has run and performed well, apart from the couple of niggling problems that these are known for ...
  
Post #211503923rd Jan 2020 9:27 am
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Browny90
 


Member Since: 19 Jul 2016
Location: Ashbourne
Posts: 686

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

With [low pressure/ lift pumps] fuel pumps, certainly historically, they would stop working/ break down long before you notice, as the fuel is already at the engine it continues to syphon the fuel, but maybe yours has been struggling without the assistance of the electric pump.

Of course, as soon as you put air in the system, the engine can no longer syphon the fuel from the tank and you get the symptoms you've described.

On old Scania's we had similar issues (although the lift pumps were mechanical) when you broke into the fuel system you'd struggle to get it bled through again, the same on 200 TDI defenders/ discos.

I suggest:
> Checking the electrical feed to the pump with the ignition on
> If you have a good electrical feed then replace the pump
> If you don't have a Feed then check the wiring and fuse
> Replace the pump anyway, it won't do any harm
> You could try (I have on Defenders and Scania's) using an air compressor to pressurise the fuel tank, either make a make shift cap or just cover with your hand and stop the air escaping, at the same time turning the engine over.
 Disco4 MY16 SDV6 Landmark Black
Disco4 MY12 SDV6 XS Orkney Grey (Gone)
Defender 90 200tdi Completely rebuilt. 
 
Post #211504323rd Jan 2020 9:31 am
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