Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Back on the rear diff.
Started with this:
Tried to measure back lash - Measured on the pinion as you can't access the crown wheel as it's a clamshell diff. Failed, no discernable point to measure from.
Tried to measure preload with string and an electronic spring balance - preload virtually nil.
Stripped and found the worn bearing:
Attempted to push out the front bush - it wasn't budging:
Drilled and chiseled out the front bush:
Removed the old bearing races. There is no provision for drifting/pulling the old bearings out. Almost as if the diff is a non serviceable item! So I ran a bead of weld around each race to shrink it down until they fell out. Repeated for all bearings:
The shims were bagged and tagged to make sure they went back where they came from.
I then blocked off all entries to the diff for blasting to try and keep the blast media out of the internals (it was only 99% effective):
Blasting in my home made cabinet:
Then it was paint time:
Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
20th Mar 2021 11:17 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Then it was bath time to make sure there was no blast media in the diff:
After a bath you need to dry off:
in this case in the oven. Followed by cool down:
The front rubber bush was fitted. It was an absolute c**t to fit. Ended up freezing it to make life easier. There is a better lead in on one side. I also filed a slight lead on the hole in the diff.
New bearings were fitted all round using a kit from advanced factors.Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
20th Mar 2021 11:33 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
Can you elaborate on the theory behind running a bead of weld on a blinded bearing race to get it out? Never come across that before. Great work.
21st Mar 2021 12:20 am
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Gareth,
You turn your welder up to max (it's all about heat). Spread some grease around the either side of the race to stop splatter causing issues (but not on the race). The weld away. The weld material is deposited 'hot', so when it cools it contracts and shrinks the bearing race diameter down until it falls out.
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
21st Mar 2021 12:58 am
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
So the diff got assembled as follows. Pinion in and the the flange bolt tightened with a home made flange holding tool and big breaker bar:
I warmed the outer pinon bearing and pinion flange in the oven to 150C to make assembly easier. The pinion nut was tightened to give a preload of ~ 1 NM. This was measured using a baggage scale and some string around the pinion flange:
I was planning to make a spacer shim to add onto the crush washer so that it would force it to be crushed further. But I discovered that it still acted as a spring holding the pinion bearings apart and causing a reasonable pinion nut torque to achieve the right pinion bearing preload. The pinion nut torque was about 3 grunts on a long breaker bar. I went with that.
The diff carrier was fitted and the casing bolts torqued up. The preload was then rechecked and was about 2.6 NM for the full diff with out the lip seal installed. I could not find any specs for the diff. But the preload is around the same preload for a Nissan Patrol diff that I have specs for. I then googled Dana diff preload (the ring gear is teeped 'Dana') and found this:
Click image to enlarge
Not sure what the D3 diff is in the standard Dana terminology. After a google session using the part numbers teeped on the gears I was none the wiser. So I guessed the diff is Dana 44 size. So between 19 and 35 lb.in - that's between 2.14 and 3.9 Nm with new bearings. I decided I was in the right zone and most importantly it felt right - there was a nice resistance to hand turning of the diff and I could feel the backlash implying there was a suitable preload split between the pinion and diff carrier bearings. Also the split between preloads was 62% pinion, 38% carrier bearings. That's is roughly the same split in preload as a Nissan Patrol diff.
Then I check the back lash with a DTI onto a bolt into the pinion flange - like so (this is on the front diff, but you get the idea):
I got 0.28mm. But the radius of the bolt from the pinion axis is 50mm, the ring gear ring gear radius (where you normally measure back lash) is 80mm. That's a ratio of 1.6, so the back lash at the ring gear will be 0.45mm (or 0.017" in old money). This is above the Dana specs listed. But I don't have the shims to adjust this and it's a monster task to make ground shims to set up a diff. So I decided to check the gear contact pattern.
Gear ink on the ring gear ready to re-fit:
The diff was re assembled and the diff rotated to transfer the ink giving this pattern:
I decided I was happy with that for a used diff. So the diff was stripped and the pinion lip seal installed the finally built. Final total preload was 2.89Nm.
Before:
After:
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
26th Mar 2021 12:53 am
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
Breg90 wrote:
Gareth,
You turn your welder up to max (it's all about heat). Spread some grease around the either side of the race to stop splatter causing issues (but not on the race). The weld away. The weld material is deposited 'hot', so when it cools it contracts and shrinks the bearing race diameter down until it falls out.
Adrian
Thanks. I might find that useful one day.
26th Mar 2021 7:56 am
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
On other fronts I have been pottering away on the engine and got the glow plugs out.
Bought a glow pug impact tool and had an initial go. At 30Nm nothing was moving. Put WD40 on them for a few days and ordered some of the Kroil penitrating fluid. Then added kroil twice a day for a week.
When I went back to it the plugs came straight out, some at 20 NM, some at 30 NM. To be honest they look brand new with no coke at all. The previous owner must have had them done. Only took them out as I have the engine out and its seemed crazy not too. There was no signs of them not working. Think I will test them and fire them back in.
AdrianSeries one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
27th Mar 2021 12:29 am
aja4x4
Member Since: 14 Apr 2019
Location: Westbury
Posts: 2459
Just check the voltages written on them i dont know what they are on these engines but VW and Vauxhall engines now use a 4v glowplug if you connect 12v they can heat up quick and go off like a fire crackerAndrew
D3 2.7tdv6 2005
D4 3.0 SDV6 Commercial died and gone to LR heaven
D5 3.0 SDV6 HSE
27th Mar 2021 9:47 am
Disco_Mikey
Member Since: 29 May 2007
Location: Dundee, Scotland
Posts: 20727
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26699
How’s it going? I was enjoying this thread. 👍
29th Apr 2021 9:33 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13880
Me to New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
29th Apr 2021 10:16 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Its slowly progressing. Awaiting some parts from America!
But work has been busy and I'm just about to go canoeing for a long weekend. Patience is a virtue!Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
29th Apr 2021 11:04 pm
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Ok a bit of an update. Things have been slow due to being very busy at work followed by being off ill for 3 weeks and still not right....
However engine - Put up a few bits on that a few pages back, but thought I'd do an engine specific section here.
So engine - ran OK, no issues after 145K miles. But I wanted to check the bearings and crank rather then put the car back together and find it went bang shortly after. So stripped the bottom end and found this on the main bearings:
No.2 main bearing being the worst but some wear evident on brg 1.
The crank was removed and checked for cracks (see a few pages back) and found OK. All journals were measured up in two locations 90 degrees apart. There was no ovality detected using a 0.0001" (tenths) graduated micrometer. I could not find the journal dimeter tolerance in LR Topix. However I have found the tolerance for the ford F-150 3.0 Lion engine. My journals were all within the Ford F150 tolerance band. Big end journal diameter only varied by 0.0001" (one ten thousand) across all 6 bearings. There was a 0.0003" (three ten thousands) variance across the main bearing journals.
I deemed the crank OK at this point.
Main bearing clearances:
Used pastigauge to check clearances. Had a bit of a FUBAR at this point, didn't realize until later. Refitting the crank with the pistons still in needs a bit of juggling to make sure the con rod ends do not sit against the crank. Double checked, all looked good 100% sure a con rod was not resting against a journal, so refitted the main bearings with pastigauge and torqued the caps and got the following:
I believe the clearance on the main bearings should be 0.022mm to 0.040mm based on LR Topix (the Ford F150 3.0 Lion apparently has up to a 0.067mm clearance). That puts most of my bearings towards the top clearance of LR's clearance band.
On removal of the crank I noticed that the conrod closest to the flywheel had marked the journal..... FU*K!!!!! Don't seem to have taken pictures of my c*ck up... Whiskey was consumed.
Ended up using a fine slip stone and an Arkansas stone to polish out the marks on the journal. It still measures up OK and I can't feel the mark. As the for the con rod you can see where the fracture surface has been effected, so the rod and cap will not sit 100% right against each other. I will have to fit a new rod.
Next step - check the big end clearances. Not wanting to repeat the crank FUBAR I messed with trying to install the crank and not repeat my mistake. I'm sure it is possible, but decided against it and moved the rods out of the way by stripping the rest of the engine and pulling the pistons.....
Intakes off, injectors out, HPFP out, glow plugs out after some penetrant had been left on them for a week (see a few pages back), wiring looms off, rocker covers off. You need to take the cam belt wheels off to get the cams off. LR do a load of special tools for this. I used the following:
Then I removed the cams:
My cam chain tensioners were OK:
I then removed the hydraulic lifters - locations were marked, lifters then removed, bagged and labeled to make sure they go back where they came from.
Finally the heads were off. A light clean up of the piston tops showed a nice injector spray pattern that was consistent across all 6 cylinders:
Pistons came out of the top.Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
15th Jun 2021 12:19 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4627
Just as well you did the complete strip given those pics, seems you're getting there now and with a thorough rebuild. Have you kept a tab on costs so far?yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
15th Jun 2021 12:40 am
Breg90
Member Since: 04 Feb 2017
Location: Falkirk
Posts: 347
Haaaa, that's subject best not discussed.
More seriously I think I will spend north of £5K. But I could have spent that on a newer car and have similar issues in 2 -3 years. Hoping to get 10 out of this....Series one 1949 - in bits, chassis is strapped to the ceiling in my garage (beside the canoe)
LR 90 - In bits
Disco 3 - currently in bits
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