Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
Battery Replacement
Thanks to this Forum I had the inspiration about eight months ago to understand the difference between a battery charger and a battery conditioner, and to buy the latter for a rainy day. I also have understood that the LR3 is highly sensitive to voltage drop, and that the symptom of multiple faults, or lots of warning lights plus headlights working but not turning over can simply be a sign of battery wear. And best of all that the battery conditioner can be connected during a battery swap out so that no hard reset of the car or CANBUS occurs.
This morning I fitted a new battery because of the above, after the car was diagnosed by a helpful breakdown mechanic as having a faulty starter motor, and that by him the battery voltage was fine. Thanks to the collective wisdom here I knew better and could sort everything out myself. So - thank you all!2009 LR3 HSE 4.0 V6 petrol
11th Mar 2021 9:52 pm
jbn
Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
It turns out...
...that I was completely and utterly wrong about the root cause. Car failed to start on two separate occasions today, and then later did start. Battery is fine.
I have read of several possible causes, but this is probably beyond my abilities to fault find, so it will be a phone call to the garage first thing on Monday and hope that it will start at least one more time.
Hubris, ate. 2009 LR3 HSE 4.0 V6 petrol
12th Mar 2021 8:17 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5044
Get the garage to check the positive cable is not fouling on the front differential! Sometimes this causes the protective sheath to wear down exposing the live copper to earth
It's probably fine but have it checked anyway before condemning the starter. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
12th Mar 2021 8:42 pm
Motolab
Member Since: 18 Oct 2019
Location: Sleen
Posts: 1820
Re: Battery Replacement
jbn wrote:
This morning I fitted a new battery because of the above, after the car was diagnosed by a helpful breakdown mechanic as having a faulty starter motor, and that by him the battery voltage was fine. Thanks to the collective wisdom here I knew better and could sort everything out myself. So - thank you all!
Luckily you did not mention the name of this helpfull breakdown mechanic.. cause he was more right than you...
Lets hope your you garage can pinpoint the issue correct before they start to exchange random parts at your costs in the hope to solve the issue.. Best regards
Harold
Always looking for Pre '55's & Pre war British Motorcycles! knowing or having one for sale? PM please. I visit the UK 6 times a year
Ps. I edit my texts quite often, english is not my native language, so I will edit My “typo’s” etc.
12th Mar 2021 8:46 pm
jbn
Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
Thanks Both.
Motolab wrote:
Luckily you did not mention the name of this helpfull breakdown mechanic.. cause he was more right than you...
Hence my description of Hubris, ate - pride comes before a fall.
Of course I would not name the guy... ironically I know him from last month when he recovered my company Mercedes that was totalled after I hit a car that had failed to stop when exiting a side road onto the main road just in front me. Nobody seriously hurt, which is somewhat miraculous considering I was doing 80 kmph (legally), and the Police have reassured me that I was not in any way at fault.
It hasn't been a good four weeks for cars overall what with this problem. But the eight month old company car has been replaced new so I am optimistic for a quick diagnosis and repair of the LR3...2009 LR3 HSE 4.0 V6 petrol
12th Mar 2021 9:12 pm
jbn
Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
Update: the garage have been through every connector, starter relay and added an extra grounding strap. Despite all of this they have been able to reproduce the problem. They have consulted Land Rover in Switzerland who advise that this behaviour could be attributable to “an ECU having lost its programming”. The garage advise bringing it to LR for advance fault diagnosis (and possible ECU reflash of course).
Does this make any sense as a diagnosis? I seem to remember there is a Land Rover Indy in the Lake Geneva region and they might be preferable, but either way it is going to need someone more specialised.
Thanks in advance.2009 LR3 HSE 4.0 V6 petrol
16th Mar 2021 1:19 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5044
What fault codes are present? If the ECU was at fault it's possible an immobilizer or other fault is present. Did the garage check to see if the start signal is being received at the starter relay?
If it is present, the ECU is ruled out and the problem lies between the relay and the starter motor.
With these vehicles your first port of call should always be a LR indy specialist. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
16th Mar 2021 2:22 pm
jbn
Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
No meaningful fault codes - plenty are registered when the car does not start and the dashboard lights up like a proverbial Christmas tree, but nothing endures after reading, checking and clearing with my IIDtool. That said, I just reread the list and many are CANBUS communication errors.
Good point about the voltage, I will ask the garage.
After some wider internet searching thanks to various things being ruled out, I am wondering about the Instrument Cluster as the culprit: for several months we experienced that the LCD display at the bottom was frequently corrupted or blank. I got as far as taking a photo some time ago to post with a request for help but never got round to it, maybe a significant oversight. I have noticed during this episode that the display now works consistently, but since it begs the question of what was wrong before that is not now, it makes me wonder if I should simply ask the garage to check it over. It cannot hurt, while the car is with them.
NJSSAm I Gammon or Woke ? - I neither know nor care.
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2011 Mercedes Benz SL350 (R230)
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Past LRs - Multiple FFRs, Discos & a Series I - some petrol, some diesel,
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16th Mar 2021 5:11 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10684
16th Mar 2021 5:32 pm
jbn
Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
PROFSR G wrote:
What fault codes are present? If the ECU was at fault it's possible an immobilizer or other fault is present. Did the garage check to see if the start signal is being received at the starter relay?
If it is present, the ECU is ruled out and the problem lies between the relay and the starter motor.
With these vehicles your first port of call should always be a LR indy specialist.
The garage say that the immobiliser is preventing the start signal from being transmitted. It is not a faulty key fob - I have three and all behave similarly. So their conclusion is possibly the receiver on the steering column, but more like a system fault maybe originating in the control box in the engine compartment behind the glovebox, for the following reasons. (If relevant please remember this is a left hand drive vehicle.) For months after a windscreen replacement we found water in the driver footwell. Vehicle usually parked on a sloped driveway tilted forward and left. After several rounds with the sunroof drain tubes, the culprit was traced to rainwater entering via the engine compartment behind the glovebox, and a suitable plastic shield solved the issue. The control box there was subjected to a lot of water, and whilst apparently inside it looks fine, there is a finger of suspicion being pointed at it.
Does this make sense? I know that I have not used exactly the right technical labels for some bits and pieces. Also, please remember that this is an intermittent fault, though now very frequent, and that the strange behaviour of no media console and all flashers going cleared while actually driving round a corner.
There is one Land Rover Indy shop that I have found here in Switzerland, in Gland. I need to talk with them but does anyone know of others please? By preference in the Lake Geneva region - I am near to Fribourg and Bern but two hours drive from Zurich.
Many thanks!2009 LR3 HSE 4.0 V6 petrol
18th Mar 2021 10:31 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10684
I’d been thinking the dash instrument cluster first.
Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
Thanks Pete - I have been asking the local garage to make a physical check of the Instrument Cluster but they had baulked at doing this until now - I think they were being influenced by the mechanics at Land Rover (Emil Frey here) with whom they have been talking.
I am perfectly happy to ask them to extract the panel and take a look at it together. Soldering is one thing I am fairly good at, and if reflowing the ICs is not directly called for then I think I can cope.
Considering the likely costs, and with your heavy hints I have no difficulty in persuading myself that we should look at the Instrument Cluster. Frankly, any opportunity for my local garage to solve it - directly or indirectly - and also avoiding the hassle of getting the vehicle transported if it does not start, and the logistics if it actually does!
EDIT: I have an IIDtool so if I could source a replacement cluster in km with under 120,000 I could probably fit it myself.
EDIT2: Would it be worth trying a hard reset first? Not actually done this yet, on the contrary I was careful to maintain the battery conditioner connection when swapping the battery.
Jonathan2009 LR3 HSE 4.0 V6 petrol
18th Mar 2021 11:09 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10684
If it’s an intermittent fault, doubt a battery reset would fix
But it’s worth ago on these !
18th Mar 2021 12:58 pm
jbn
Member Since: 06 Jun 2017
Location: Hesse
Posts: 47
Garage say they already tried that, so now I have asked them to take the Instrument Cluster out and let me take a look at it. From the various links above there are anecdotes of just reseating the connectors being enough, through to visible dry joints. It cannot hurt, and I really do not want LR to start wholesale recommending to replace modules.
When I first got the car the passenger mirror would not dip and return after reversing. I agreed for them to replace it. But the new one has never been any better, and from what I learned later it is not worth the hassle to start on the seat memories - which otherwise work just fine. We live with it. My point is there are things I would prefer them to do, and some things not. It is not a question of trust - they are main dealers and have a limited set of responses to things.2009 LR3 HSE 4.0 V6 petrol
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