Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14432
This seems to be an effective approach:
and why I wish they were culled effectively when you see some of the consequences of their actions
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24th Nov 2018 7:29 pm
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6270
D&G wrote:
The view of us is/was
Researchers who studied the behaviour of drivers of the all-terrain vehicles say that they took more risks because they felt safer than drivers of smaller cars. Scornfully known as Chelsea tractors due to their increasing appearance on urban streets, few 4x4s have seen more mud than can be picked up on a private school sports field. Teachers have tried to ban them and politicians want to impose penal tax rates on them - up to £2,000 a year, 10 times the normal road tax, in the latest proposal from the Liberal Democrats. They have been widely condemned as gas-guzzling, road-hogging and environmentally damaging. And the new front opened by the medical profession is bound further to inflame the debate on Britain's most controversial vehicle.
All starts with taring a group with the same brush.
I am both a biker (off road and on road) and a 4x4 owner. I would say that neither of the behaviour in the two posts represent those groups.
However I could be wrong and you lot could all road hogs with small willys...
All very well but what’s that got to do with me calling a person riding a motorcycle a biker?23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
24th Nov 2018 7:41 pm
D&G
Member Since: 29 Jun 2017
Location: Charente 16480
Posts: 3483
J77 wrote:
Police up here are powerless, they at the moment at least can’t give chase.
It’s about time tougher action is taken.
Assuming these are "bikers" then the police are not powerless, you only have provide the police with the motor vehicle's registration number. There is no need for them to give chase, they can go to the registered house.
If they are criminals riding stolen bikes then they are not bikers and the police will need to take more direct action.
I once when to Scotland and wore a kilt......does that make me Scotish?An honorable defeat is better than a dishonorable victory.” ― Millard Fillmore
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24th Nov 2018 7:55 pm
Hocks172
Member Since: 29 Mar 2014
Location: Brighton
Posts: 556
Going back to the original point, Yes the Police are use reasonable force to stop the criminals. They just need to drive over them and reverse! IMO.
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24th Nov 2018 8:07 pm
LT
Member Since: 31 Dec 2005
Location: South West
Posts: 23833
Calling the riders of an unregistered or stolen moped/motorcycle “bikers” is akin to calling the driver of a stolen RRS involved in a ram raid a “Land Rover enthusiast”. 👍2006 D3 HSE (Original & still the best)-GONE
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24th Nov 2018 8:34 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8231
Red Merle wrote:
I’ve got a problem when it’s not immediately obvious which one the criminal is - the person on the bike, or the officer driving the car.
Taking it to an extreme, I’m sure we’d feel pretty sick if one of our (innocent) relatives were deliberately knocked down and possibly even killed having been misidentified.
So how would you feel if one of these idiots knocked down one of your relatives, probably the same as if one knocked you down.
I can assure you from personal experience they don’t give a t ss who gets in their way, police cars should be fitted with miniature exocette missiles IMHO It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
24th Nov 2018 10:34 pm
Rescue01
Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 2519
Lawless Britain
Copied the stats below from another site. I saw the documentary at the time. I will try and see if it’s still available. Doing this on my iPhone so it’s a pain. Fat fingers and crap eyes 🤣
This is not in response to anyones comments i just thought it was interesting and slightly worrying.
The documentary was on channel 5 and called Lawless Britain.
"In the year to March 2018 reported incidents of violent crime in England and Wales are up nearly a fifth"
"May 2018 was reportedly the most violent month on record this decade"
"Since 2010 the number of police officers has been cut by around 21,000"
"knife crime is up 16%" "Robberies are up nearly one third"
"In London offences by criminals using mopeds have gone up a reported 30 times in the last five years"
"Over 15,000 mopeds are reported to have been stolen last year in London"
"In the last year to March 2018,in England and Wales over 40,000 offences involving knives or sharp weapons were recorded by police"
"In Birmingham there were a reported 69 incidents of children carrying knives in schools in just 18 months"
"England and Wales currently has its lowest number of police officers since the 1980s"
"In the 12 months to March 2018 robberies increased by 30% in England and Wales"
"57% of robbery investigations are closed with no suspect identified"
"95% of burglaries and robberies in England and Wales were reportedly not solved last year"
"In the year end to March 2018 9 out of 10 offences did not result in a charge"
"Britain has the highest rates of acid attacks in the world"
"In the first four months of last year there were a reported average of two acid attacks every day"
"There were more than 500 acid attacks across Britain last year"
The thing about the documentary that struck me was the amount of attacks,robberies carried out in broad daylight in very busy public places.Most of them involved multiple assailaints using "shock and awe" tactics.
I hope people find this informativeIts not the height of the fall but the sudden stop at the bottom that hurts!!
25th Nov 2018 6:30 am
Rescue01
Member Since: 14 Jan 2008
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 2519
This documentary is still available on catch up on the My5 app.
Worth a watch especially about the moped gangs. 👍Its not the height of the fall but the sudden stop at the bottom that hurts!!
25th Nov 2018 6:36 am
Red Merle
Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7441
Farmer Chalk wrote:
You have lived in the Countryside for too long surrounded by pleasantness and politeness... i’m afraid living in the City is not all innocent and light.... unfortunately the gangs have taken over the asylum and were until recently doing exactly what they wanted and the police were powerless to do anything about it.
Research the robbery figures in the Metropolitan areas and you will see astronomical increases...mopeds were the perfect tool for robberies, armed robberies, stabbing, shootings and behaving like you were living life in a video game...
Calling a policeman a criminal for trying to stop these people in order that you can sleep peacefully at night is a bit of an insult!
Yes, I have been in the countryside for a few decades. I last rode by bike around the North Circular and M25 about 4 years ago and I'll never ride there again; despite riding a big bike, complete with panniers, car drivers drove with a completely different set of rules which meant deliberately crashing into my bike and knocking me off, to take the bit of road I was on, or get to where they needed to be just a bit quicker, was fair game.
Perhaps it's time for some Mad Max style policing and if a few innocents get killed in the process, then that's the collateral damage that the locals may be happy to live with.2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
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25th Nov 2018 7:16 am
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 06 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4195
I can assure you that if you were a motorcyclist riding your bike in London or Birmingham tomorrow you will be perfectly safe from being taken out by any Police driver....
This tactic cannot be performed by any Police driver but only by highly skilled advanced pursuit drivers. The Course for this is or was 5 weeks long! The pass rate is ridiculously high...for the five weeks you are continuously tested and the fail rate is 2/3’s!
They will have the pursuit entirely monitored by two controllers...one involved in the pursuit and one who is controlling the chase remotely...
The decision to ‘end’ the pursuit is not taken lightly and the driver knows the risks and his prime decision will be the collateral damage to other persons, other peoples property and the risks to the rider...
He will have to justify to a Court of Law, and more importantly MOPAC and the IOPC his decision. His actions will be investigated involving his second by second decisions whether they were right or wrong.
I cannot tell you how bad the moral of the officers has been recently... they join the service to protect the public...they don’t join to be spat on, sworn at, beaten up, have a camera thrust into their face as soon as they get out of their car or turn up at a scene or continually complained about....which is now the norm.
I am afraid for far too long the support for front line officers has diminished and it is a totally thankless task...
Unfortunately Society in the inner cities has broken down....the youths know this and unfortunately they have no respect for anyone! They know that the Police cannot do anything about it because we have allowed them to be tied up in red tape and unworkable legislation....
Society gets the Policing Society wants....
Unfortunately most of society live in leafy suburbs where they can sleep safely at night, read their Guardian newspaper in the morning and complain....
25th Nov 2018 7:53 am
icestationzebra
Member Since: 05 Nov 2008
Location: Cheshire
Posts: 597
Quote:
Unfortunately most of society live in leafy suburbs where they can sleep safely at night, read their Guardian newspaper in the morning and complain..
Interesting reading your article just wondered why you choose The Guardian as the paper of choice read in the suburbs?
It is the UK's lowest national daily circulation.
25th Nov 2018 10:03 am
Farmer Chalk
Member Since: 06 Mar 2013
Location: Independent Republic of Kentishshire.
Posts: 4195
Because Guardian readers are renowned for living in their own holistic bubble!
Unfortunately the Rita chakrabartees of the world have no idea what real inner city life actually means nowadays but are the first to support these neerdowells and just want to bash up the authorities for their own political reasons... all it does is undermine society even further...
We are slowly sliding off into the abyss...
Sorry but just watched this decline over the last 30 years and it saddens me!
25th Nov 2018 10:21 am
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
Being on the frontline must be frustrating when it seems the police can’t do right for doing wrong, we just need to think ourselves lucky that we aren’t protected by police in the US manner. I do feel that the communities themselves need to do more things like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/parklifeDS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
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Having lived (midweek anyway) in Kennington for 3 years and seen these utter c-units hacking around and completely owning the patch from E&C to Brixton, Stockwell, and down to the river at London Bridge and Battersea, this is a welcome development.
They mount the pavements and ride through crowds grabbing bags, phones, wallets. They openly wave hammers, knives and machetes. if you are in an up and coming (or established) nicer area in or near this patch, you make sure everything is in your pockets before you step out of a pub, restaurant or takeaway as if it's in your hands, it won't be for long.
Take a call while walking along the street? Better have an earpiece in and leave it in your pocket. Try and hang on to your stuff? Expect to be spending your night in A&E.
You'll see in each of these take-downs the scooter is at low speed, usually on a corner, and the nudge is minimal. Let's get a sense of proportion here, we're not talking about them being rammed with closing speeds in double figures here, we're talking nudges with immediate braking.
The end result is no different to an officer on foot rugby-tackling someone as they run away, or even an officer on foot shouldering a scooter rider, with the exception of the police officer being safer with this approach.
As noted by Farmer Chalk (orlwight geezer? ) morale of the frontline officers is in the gutter following years of armchair analysis of edited youtube footage. Many hark for the days where police were respected and a clip around the ear for a gobby teen was met with a sulky acceptance of wrongdoing. No, police of old were far from perfect and there were some terrible actions perpetrated by isolated officers, but the Police Service of recent years has been too neutered by an idealistic desire to remove all officer judgement in favour of hindsight.
I spent two years working with the Met in an IT/Consultancy role that directly affected frontline policing, ending in Feb this year. During that time I met hundreds of officers of all ranks and without exception they feel beleaguered and bruised by the press, by actions of some of their recent commanding officers and by the treatment of this government. I remain friends with many and there's a hope that this and other (yet to be trumpeted) changes may return the police to a more pragmatic centre ground.
Bravo Met Police and well done in particular to Cressida Dick for being the force for improvement that your predecessor could never be.I know it's not considered "kind" to say no these days, but no. Just no, ok? And if it's not ok, still no.
25th Nov 2018 11:06 am
D&G
Member Since: 29 Jun 2017
Location: Charente 16480
Posts: 3483
Well observed and written Nodosh.
I have a number of retired officers who are clients here in France.
Everyone had left the force disillusioned with what it has become and a fair few of them with stress related illnesses. When I hear some of their stories, I generally feel that society has not been fair to those that run towards danger so the rest of us can be safe. Or in our current society. .....safely film them being assulted.An honorable defeat is better than a dishonorable victory.” ― Millard Fillmore
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ss who gets in their way, police cars should be fitted with miniature exocette missiles IMHO 
